Erie Golf Club - A.W. Tillinghast 1921 (Richard Mandell redesign 2005)

[Richard Hetzel]

On my way back (and, I did not want to leave) from The Bridge, I decided to drive an hour and a half out of my way to play Erie Golf Club. Erie GC is a 1921 A.W. Tillinghast golf course in Erie, PA. It's currently for sale, if the township cannot sell it, it will revert to green space, which would be a shame as it is a fun golf course. Blue tees tip out at 6420, white tees play 6058 and the red tees are 4743 yards.It's laid out over a somewhat hilly parcel of land. Many of the greens are smaller in size as you would expect from an older golf course. I have no idea, I can speculate, which holes are the newer ones here.

Hole #1 - Par 4.Pretty straight forward golf hole. To the immediate right is the entrance road to the clubhouse.


#2 Number one handicap hole is a par 5 with a lot of width off the tee.


#3 Par 4

#4 Par 3

[Richard Hetzel]

#5, dogleg right, I forgot to get a pic of the green, but it's wedged right now too close the trees so it does not get enough sunlight.



#6 Dogleg left, uphill par 4.

[Richard Hetzel]

#7 slight dogleg left

[Richard Hetzel]

#8 par 3

[Richard Hetzel]

#9 dogleg right, uphill drive

[Richard Hetzel]

#10, big dogleg right. Green is located really close to the tree line.

[Richard Hetzel]

#11


#12

#13


#14



#15



#16

#17

#18




I may have a few of these back nine holes out of order, we teed off on the back 9 so I was a bit confused posting these! I also was not driving the cart so I could not take all of the pictures that I wanted.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Yeah, for #9 you have pictures of pictures of 13 and 11.

9 is the little dogleg right up the hill. 10 plays down the hill to the big side slope fairway (dogleg right). 11 back up the hill to a very round green. 12 is a par three right beside #9 green. 13 comes back toward the clubhouse building (east side of the clubhouse). 14 is the first hole across the road with the pond, 15 comes back along the 14th and has a green near the same road (the road to the right of #1). 16 is a downhill par four, 17 is the downhill par three, and 18 is the uphill par four that finishes on the north side of the clubhouse.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

I give up. The neglect of this forum and the software running it is nuts.


You get a hole ahead (the par three you have as #13 is #12), and so you are missing hole #16 (downhill par four to the west side of the clubhouse building). You have a hole 9 green picture in there with another hole, and a hole 11 green photo in a wrong place, too. Holes 17 and 18 are good.

[Adam Besvinick]

For those that have been to the club, what's the view on the current auction now and guide price? They're saying $1.1M...think it goes higher? How much work do you think is necessary to make the course a place that really attracts a local membership and visitors?

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Adam, I'm not sure it will sell for $1.1M, and it's going to need a good bit of re-investment above and beyond the purchase price. It's not a great piece of land or a very good golf course. Were it up to me, I'd scrap nine of the holes and turn it into a par three course with a range (no range at the course currently). Keep… 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, play 13 as 7, and play 14 and 15 across the street as 8 and 9.

[Richard Hetzel]

For those that have been to the club, what's the view on the current auction now and guide price? They're saying $1.1M...think it goes higher? How much work do you think is necessary to make the course a place that really attracts a local membership and visitors?

It needs all new electronics/computer for the irrigation system. The price also DOES NOT include any golf course equipment at all. So, it's a lot more than 1.1 million.

[Ryan Book]

Good news for all the Tillinghast fans out there (including me): The prospective buyer of the club (Mr. Charles R. Van Eeeken) has stated his intentions to restore the course to its original design.

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.72)]https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2024/08/29/erie-golf-club-sale-millcreek/[/color]

[Erik J. Barzeski]

I'm not sure they have a clue what the original Tillinghast course is, let alone the funding to restore it. I mean… maybe, but I've never seen it. It's < 1 mile from my house, though, so if they are going to do a lot of work there I'll take photos, etc.

Also, the course was closed for I think two years, so the quote about leagues playing there for 30 years in a row rang hollow.

[Phil Young]

Richard, the winning bid was $1,311,000. With that he receives (if he still wants it after due diligence inspections) the entire 175-acre property, the 5,532 sq. ft. clubhouse that has a kitcgen, dining room, pro shop and outdoor patio. In addition to that comes the maintenance and golf cart buildings, the pump house, parking lot and the existing and sprinkler system which will have to be replaced.


Erik, I can't speak about whether or not leagues played for 30 years in a row there or not. What I can say that one of the leagues, the "Erie Golf Belles," that loved the course and club passionately and brought pressure on the city through the local and state media, among other ways, to keep the property from being sold 15 years ago to a developer who wanted to build houses there, this topoc for conversation wouldn't exist today.

[Rob Marshall]

I'm not sure they have a clue what the original Tillinghast course is, let alone the funding to restore it. I mean… maybe, but I've never seen it. It's < 1 mile from my house, though, so if they are going to do a lot of work there I'll take photos, etc.

Also, the course was closed for I think two years, so the quote about leagues playing there for 30 years in a row rang hollow.

“Many of the members have been playing here for 30 years or longer.”

I didn’t see anything that said leagues played there 30 years in a row…..in the attached article.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Erik, I can't speak about whether or not leagues played for 30 years in a row there or not. What I can say that one of the leagues, the "Erie Golf Belles," that loved the course and club passionately and brought pressure on the city through the local and state media, among other ways, to keep the property from being sold 15 years ago to a developer who wanted to build houses there, this topoc for conversation wouldn't exist today.

I can: the course was closed for > 1 year and maybe longer than two or three. And anyway, I misread "for 30 years or longer" as meaning continuously, but it doesn't have to mean that. So, apologies and never mind on that.

I don't know that it could have been sold and developed, as I am pretty sure the deed (when it was given or sold to the city of Erie, before they turned around and gave/sold it to Millcreek) requires that it remain a golf course.

We'll see what they do. I don't even know if there are any original plans. Maybe there are some old aerials, but I don't think I'll hold my breath. Some of the land is quite severe - balls-not-staying-on-fairways-and-rolling-off severe. Might have worked when fairways stimped at 1.5 but not today.

[Phil Young]

Erik, it took a lawsuit in 2006 by a "group of intervenors", among the forefron of whom were the Erie Golf Belles. The judge in the case, the Honorable Stephanie Domitrovitch, found on behalf of the "intervenors." Her findings stated, "AND NOW, to wit, this 27th day of June, 2007, after hearing extensive testimony and oral argument, after examining the evidence presented, inclduing numerous exhibits, and after a thorough independent review of the relevant statutory and case law, it is hereby ODERED, ADJUDGED, AND DECREED that the city of Erie's petition to Abandon Use of dedicated Public Property is Denied for the reasons set forward in the above Memorandum Opinion. The Erie Golf Course property shall continue to be held by the City of erie in the public trust consistent with the purpose of the original property dedication, as a golf course or for public park purposes, or both."


If you'd like more info, IM me your email address and I'll send it on to you.

[Chris Hughes]

Erik, it took a lawsuit in 2006 by a "group of intervenors", among the forefron of whom were the Erie Golf Belles. The judge in the case, the Honorable Stephanie Domitrovitch, found on behalf of the "intervenors." Her findings stated, "AND NOW, to wit, this 27th day of June, 2007, after hearing extensive testimony and oral argument, after examining the evidence presented, inclduing numerous exhibits, and after a thorough independent review of the relevant statutory and case law, it is hereby ODERED, ADJUDGED, AND DECREED that the city of Erie's petition to Abandon Use of dedicated Public Property is Denied for the reasons set forward in the above Memorandum Opinion. The Erie Golf Course property shall continue to be held by the City of erie in the public trust consistent with the purpose of the original property dedication, as a golf course or for public park purposes, or both."


If you'd like more info, IM me your email address and I'll send it on to you.

Good onya Phil...

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Erik, it took a lawsuit in 2006 by a "group of intervenors", among the forefron of whom were the Erie Golf Belles. The judge in the case, the Honorable Stephanie Domitrovitch, found on behalf of the "intervenors." Her findings stated, "AND NOW, to wit, this 27th day of June, 2007, after hearing extensive testimony and oral argument, after examining the evidence presented, inclduing numerous exhibits, and after a thorough independent review of the relevant statutory and case law, it is hereby ODERED, ADJUDGED, AND DECREED that the city of Erie's petition to Abandon Use of dedicated Public Property is Denied for the reasons set forward in the above Memorandum Opinion. The Erie Golf Course property shall continue to be held by the City of erie in the public trust consistent with the purpose of the original property dedication, as a golf course or for public park purposes, or both."

Yes, my recollection is that the judge ruled that the original deed/gift required the land to remain a golf course, so they enforced that. You've not shared anything contrary to what I've said, only that someone unsuccessfully tried to get around it.

In 1926, lands now known as the Erie Golf Course were conveyed to the City of Erie by a private club, on the municipality's payment of a nominal consideration of one dollar and assumption of a $15,000 mortgage. The recorded deed included a restrictive covenant, consistent with an authorizing ordinance, memorializing the City's commitment to preserve the property, indefinitely, as a golf course and/or for park purposes. The deed also formalized the parties' agreement that the restriction was to run with the land.

So, right now, we're at a point where:

• I'm not sure anyone knows what the original course looked like at all.
• It hasn't resembled a Tillinghast for decades.
• Erie is a very thrifty town. Peak rate with a cart is $42.
• The size of the property is small. It's a short course now with no range and a tiny practice green. It's architecturally uninteresting.
• It's a severe piece of land, with several fairways that slope well beyond roll-off.

[Phil Young]

Erik, everything you stated in those 5 points about "we're at a point where" is correct. But that very well might not be the entire story as to why a good number of proposals, including the winning one, were made in hopes of both purchasing the property and wanting to "restore as much of the original Tillinghast course as possible if they won." I know that because quite a few of those who bid on the auction contacted me and asked for information on the original course and how it had changed down to this day.


I would suggest a 'wait and see' attitude, one that I'm practicing at this moment, to see what the Mr. Van Eekeren's actual plans for the course and property actually are if he decides to go through with the purchase. 

[Erik J. Barzeski]

I know that because quite a few of those who bid on the auction contacted me and asked for information on the original course and how it had changed down to this day.

So what info do we have about the original design?

I would suggest a 'wait and see' attitude, one that I'm practicing at this moment, to see what the Mr. Van Eekeren's actual plans for the course and property actually are if he decides to go through with the purchase.

That's the approach I'm taking as well, but it doesn't change the "where we are now" we agreed to above.

[Phil Young]

Erik, if you send me an email at: philwritesbooks@aol.com, I'll send you a copy of the chapter I did on Erie Golf Club from my book, Tillinghast Chronicles Volume II: The Golf Courses of A. W. Tillinghast Version IV. Among what is in this chapter are descriptions of all 18 holes from when they were designed and built including their lengths, par and routings. Also are 3 aerial photographs from 1939, 1950 & 1983 for comparisons.

When this was first released in late 2021 it was 1,212 page in length, hence why it is only available in PDF. Since then I've expanded it by adding newly discovered courses designed/rebuilt/expanded by Tilly and new information regarding existing courses as well. When finished with Version IV which i hope will be by the end of October at the latest, it will now be more than 1,450 pages. Anyone who previously got a copy will get this and future versions. 

If anyone else would like a copy feel free to email me as well. 

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Erik, if you send me an email at: philwritesbooks@aol.com, I'll send you a copy of the chapter I did on Erie Golf Club from my book, Tillinghast Chronicles Volume II: The Golf Courses of A. W. Tillinghast Version IV. Among what is in this chapter are descriptions of all 18 holes from when they were designed and built including their lengths, par and routings. Also are 3 aerial photographs from 1939, 1950 & 1983 for comparisons.

When this was first released in late 2021 it was 1,212 page in length, hence why it is only available in PDF. Since then I've expanded it by adding newly discovered courses designed/rebuilt/expanded by Tilly and new information regarding existing courses as well. When finished with Version IV which i hope will be by the end of October at the latest, it will now be more than 1,450 pages. Anyone who previously got a copy will get this and future versions. 

If anyone else would like a copy feel free to email me as well.

Thanks. I may do that. And I've seen the pictures, and will say now there may be more in parts of the course than I thought that are semi-original, but a also that part of the land that's semi-original is also the VERY severe parts of the course, with roll-off fairway slopes, and so I remain dubious on how much Tillinghast can be "restored."