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Steve_Lovett

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Scotland trip - little things not to be missed
« on: May 31, 2024, 02:48:57 PM »
I'm headed to Scotland in mid-June for golf. Our itinerary is set and includes, in order:

Cruden Bay
Dornoch
Nairn
Elie
Kingsbarns
Carnoustie
St Andrews (new), but trying to get into the Old Course lottery
Gullane
Muirfield (36 hole day)
North Berwick

I'm interested to learn from any of you who are from there or have been there what I should go out of my way to see or shouldn't miss that I might not be aware of - either unexpected aspects of the golf design, club/clubhouses, sights, restaurants/pubs, etc. We're traveling as a group of 7. Thanks in advance for any help!

Carl Johnson

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Re: Scotland trip - little things not to be missed
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2024, 03:09:48 PM »
Sounds exhausting.  You will have little time for sightseeing. I hope you are all really good friends.  I've played all but Gullane (wash out, course closed) and North Berwick (bad salad the day before).  They are definitely worthy courses and will test you.  My general advice. Don't feel you need to do all the extras, outside of golf, together.  Some of you may want to be more adventurous than others, which is o.k. Don't go for togetherness just for the sake of it.  Research pubs and restaurants in advance.  Get to know some locals, for which pubs are good. In my experience, Scots are very friendly, and may even buy you a drink.  And finally, respect local customs and don't be obnoxious Americans (I'm assuming you are Americans).  In one of my four ventures "over there", a member of our group was embarrassing, to say the least, something I'd not expected of him.  You never know.  Finally, be prepared for Muirfield's rules.  They mean them.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2024, 04:26:12 PM by Carl Johnson »

Ira Fishman

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Re: Scotland trip - little things not to be missed
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2024, 03:23:43 PM »
We have been three times. My strongest piece of advice is to have a meal in clubhouses at Cruden Bay, Nairn, Elie, and North Berwick if your tee times permit. The food is always solid and reasonably priced, and you are likely to end up in an engaging conversation with some members.

Kalen Braley

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Re: Scotland trip - little things not to be missed
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2024, 03:27:41 PM »
Carl,

I'm not headed over anytime soon, but in lieu of this thread and the other one regarding tourists in St. Andrews... could you list a few behaviors/offences that would be considered bad form to locals, that perhaps a Yank wouldn't think twice about?  In my experience, these are the worst because you don't even realize you're doing something that is putting people off per local customs.

Thanks,




Mike Hendren

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Re: Scotland trip - little things not to be missed
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2024, 04:10:03 PM »
Between Nairn and Inverness I strongly recommend an hour or two at Culloden Battlefield.  To stand before the clan graves is humbling and deeply moving. Out of respect I could not bring myself to take photographs. 
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Carl Johnson

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Re: Scotland trip - little things not to be missed
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2024, 04:52:30 PM »
Carl,

I'm not headed over anytime soon, but in lieu of this thread and the other one regarding tourists in St. Andrews... could you list a few behaviors/offences that would be considered bad form to locals, that perhaps a Yank wouldn't think twice about?  In my experience, these are the worst because you don't even realize you're doing something that is putting people off per local customs.

Thanks,


At the clubs particularly: dress code.  Pay strict attention to it.  Always remove your golf cap indoors.  Don't set your golf cap on a dining table or the bar surface. (I think cap etiquette is tough for Yanks to remember.) No athletic wear.  Muirfield required coat and tie (unless they've relaxed that) for the noon meal usually included.  Be prepared (though they can probably furnish something for the forgetful).


Also at the clubs, play from the tees they point you to and don't complain about it.  If you are supposed to play a particular game, such as a foursome or two ball, do it all 18 holes.  Play efficiently (no diddling around).


Be super polite.  Be on time.  You are a guest.  Don't be loud (excepting for sing-alongs, I guess).


Don't ask for special food preparations unless absolutely necessary for health reasons (or you are asked how you'd prefer something), and then be quiet about it.  Tipping. Read up on how they do it over there.


And, of course, never, "but that's not how we do it in America."  And don't point out or compare for locals the differences between your experience in Scotland (or wherever) and America, unless you are specifically asked.  Be careful about making fun of things you think are strange, but they do not.  I can't give specifics.  Better to always be complementary. 


All this may sound pretty simple and obvious, nothing really unusual, but you might be surprised to find yourself lapsing from time to time if you are not careful.  In my personal experience, most Scots are very friendly and open.  For reference, my last trip, and it will be the last, was in 2012.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2024, 05:01:37 PM by Carl Johnson »

Steve_Lovett

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Re: Scotland trip - little things not to be missed
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2024, 05:15:23 PM »
Thanks, I appreciate all the info.


Yes, from the USA and I've traveled a fair portion of the world, including Ireland several years ago with a similar type of itinerary. We are all good friends and have played destination golf together.


I get the comments about courtesy and etiquette. Some need that advice more than others. I tend to be the one giving it.


It is a coat and tie for Muirfield. That part is clear and still their protocol.


Thanks, Mike, for the info on the battlefield; and Ira on meals at the clubs. Any more of those kinds of tidbits, or things we might look out for regarding the design of our venues, would be greatly appreciated.












Marty Bonnar

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Re: Scotland trip - little things not to be missed
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2024, 05:31:28 PM »
I’m sure I’ve said this here before, but very worth re-stating.
In Scotland, DO NOT - under any circumstances - drink and drive. Watch what you’re drinking - even the night before driving.
We have essentially a zero alcohol level in the blood for driving. (It’s not, but it’s bloody close).
If you’re involved in even a tiny traffic incident - and, given the narrower roads and how difficult many foreigners find it to drive on the left, there’s a fair chance you will - the cops WILL breathalyse you. If you’re over the limit, it’s a massive fine, possible jail time or community service.
JUST DON’T.
F.
PS It’s a great place - honestly!
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Niall C

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Re: Scotland trip - little things not to be missed
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2024, 06:49:39 PM »
Steve


If you've done Ireland then Scotland won't be too much different in terms of do's and don'ts.


A couple of suggestions of things to do beyond the golf; a bit of a cliche but do a distillery tour. Most distilleries are set up to do visitor tours. Worth doing at least once. Also, it looks like you'll be doing a fair bit of driving. Why not stop off along the way and play a nine holer. Lose a few clubs from the bag, 7 or 8 is all you need, and you could be round in just over an hour and on your way again. Happy to provide recommendations where I can.


Niall

Pete_Pittock

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Re: Scotland trip - little things not to be missed
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2024, 07:04:08 PM »
Near North Berwick - Tantallon Castle, Rosslyn Abbey (DaVinci Code)
Near Carnoustie - Glamis Castle
Near Cruden Bay - Slains Castle (Dracula), Dunnottar castle ruins
myriad of choices for distilleries of Scotch whiskey

Sean_A

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Re: Scotland trip - little things not to be missed New
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2024, 07:52:48 PM »
Contact the Gullane pro shop and check to see if it’s possible to see Archie Baird’s museum.

Ciao
« Last Edit: July 07, 2024, 03:49:02 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Scotland trip - little things not to be missed
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2024, 08:29:30 PM »
Stop at the bothy at Nairn. It’s clearly the best halfway house in golf. We stopped in it every round we played (4) and I don’t think we were ever over 3:15 for a round. Also, try to visit their archive room upstairs. You’ll be glad you did[size=78%]. [/size]

Ken Moum

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Re: Scotland trip - little things not to be missed
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2024, 08:52:18 PM »
Near North Berwick - Tantallon Castle, Rosslyn Abbey (DaVinci Code)
Near Carnoustie - Glamis Castle
Near Cruden Bay - Slains Castle (Dracula), Dunnottar castle ruins
myriad of choices for distilleries of Scotch whiskey



Fort George isn't far from Culloden and an amazing thing.
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Malcolm Mckinnon

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Re: Scotland trip - little things not to be missed
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2024, 09:12:15 PM »
Following up on Marty Bonnar's post re: drinking and driving...


I'm an American and we had a flat in Edinburgh for four years. Marty and I got together at the Levin Links in Fife for a round years ago.


The big difference between USA and UK is that the UK mostly uses speed cameras for law enforcement for driving offenses. Very different from America where cops camp out in hidey holes with their radars and then pounce. If you get a European Garmin GPS it will warn you for fixed speed cameras but they also can set up mobile " surprise" sites. If you get into an incident with another car Marty is right, the police will probably give you a breath test.


My advise to Americans not used to driving on the wrong side of the road is to stay close to the center median. The most common damages to rental cars driven by Americans in the UK is busted left side view mirrors as the drivers avoid the center of the road.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2024, 07:39:45 PM by Malcolm Mckinnon »

Rob Marshall

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Re: Scotland trip - little things not to be missed
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2024, 09:29:31 PM »
Following up on Marty Bonnar's post re drinking and driving...


I'm an American and we had a flat in Edinburgh for four years. Marty and I got together at Levin in Fife for a round years ago.


The big difference between USA and UK is that the UK mostly uses speed cameras for law enforcement for driving offenses. Very different from America where cops camp out in hidey holes with their radars and then pounce. If you get a European Garmin GPS it will warn you for fixed speed cameras but they also can set up mobile " surprise" sites. If you get into an incident with another car Martiy is right, the police will probably give you a breath test.


My advise to Americans not used to driving on the wrong side of the road is to stay close to the center median. The most common damages to rental cars driven by Americans in the UK is busted left side view mirrors as the drivers avoid the center of the road.


"wrong side of the road". Pretty sure you just offended someone.... :)
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Michael Moore

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Re: Scotland trip - little things not to be missed
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2024, 09:39:03 PM »
I am pro-barnstorming, but as Carl said, that's all you get. When I return to the office from a solo UK trip and my colleagues ask me about it, I'm like "and then I drove to the next course". Yes, I also go as part of a group of eight, but these days we rent a party house and do day trips, which is quite different.
 
I am a huge fan of eating at the club before or after the round. Generally the restaurant is on the second floor, with massive windows overlooking the course, with delicious hot food and cold beer. It's a great way to support the club, keep the vibe going, and meet golf nuts from all over the world.

Try Gullane #2, it's more sporty and more scenic.
 
When you get your Diet Coke with one ice cube, and you ask for more ice, and the guy adds one more cube, just suck it up.
Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

JohnVDB

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Re: Scotland trip - little things not to be missed
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2024, 09:48:06 PM »
Have a great trip.


To emphasize something Carl mentioned, talk quietly.  Recently on Reddit so,some asked what was the most annoying thing about Americans visiting the UK  almost half the responses mentioned how loud we were.


Also, when will you be in Dornoch?  Send me a message and perhaps we can get together while you’re there.

Malcolm Mckinnon

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Re: Scotland trip - little things not to be missed
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2024, 09:57:34 PM »
I second Gullane number two, but the green pads are not the most exiting. The views over the forth river are astounding once over Gullane Hill and looking across to the Largo Law and Elie in Fife.


If you have some spare time try out Alistair Mackenzie's creation at Pitreavie Dumfairline just 30 minutes north of the forth river bridge. Marty Bonnar actually rebuilt and shaped the first hole green there and it is fantastic but the rest of the greens are astounding. There is an early template hole of the 12th at Augusta National there.


Braid Hills, on top of a volcanic hill in the city of Edinburgh is also a hoot. Fantastic views over the the city and all of the Lothians all the way to North Berwick, Bass Rock and the Largo Law if weather permits.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2024, 10:03:36 PM by Malcolm Mckinnon »

Malcolm Mckinnon

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Re: Scotland trip - little things not to be missed
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2024, 10:01:02 PM »
Oh Yeah,


UK folks are not like Americans. Americans just strike up conversations with total strangers. In the UK that does not work. They cringe. You need to be invited to talk.

Kalen Braley

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Re: Scotland trip - little things not to be missed
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2024, 10:07:57 PM »
Oh Yeah,

UK folks are not like Americans. Americans just strike up conversations with total strangers. In the UK that does not work. They cringe. You need to be invited to talk.


Thanks for the feedback all.

This post probably hit on my perception of the UK the closest...that's its still very formal in many ways.  I also struggle with arbitrary rules and traditions that are just there "cause we've always done it that way"

I get if you're an invited guest you need to just show up, shut up, and follow the rule, but if you're in a public place or just out and about?  ???

Malcolm Mckinnon

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Re: Scotland trip - little things not to be missed
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2024, 10:33:15 PM »
And if you are in Edinburgh looking for food and drink, try the Devils's Advocate. It's really interesting, On the Advocate's close between High street and Waverley Station.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2024, 10:37:49 PM by Malcolm Mckinnon »

Jerry Kluger

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Re: Scotland trip - little things not to be missed
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2024, 11:40:45 PM »
I leave on Monday on a very similar trip with my sons who have never been to Scotland or Ireland to play golf.   If it works in your schedule you should see the falconry presentation at the Dunrobin Castle near Dornoch. When you are up in Dornoch you should try to play Brora which is real basic and solid links golf with animals roaming on the fairways and you should also consider Golspie which arguably has some of the very best par 3s in Scotland.

Thomas Dai

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Re: Scotland trip - little things not to be missed
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2024, 04:26:46 AM »



Experience -
Irn-Bru
Cullen Skink
Rowies
Fish supper
Smokies
Neeps and tatties


Enjoy
:)
Atb


PS - bring lots of new ProV1’s and leave them behind in the rough as a golfing equivalent of a love token. The locals greatly appreciate finding and re-using them.

David_Tepper

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Re: Scotland trip - little things not to be missed
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2024, 05:18:04 AM »
Steve -

1) With a group of 7, I recommend making dinner reservations a day or two in advance if possible.

2) The Highland Larder, a seafood shack on the beach below the 16th hole at Dornoch is a nice place for lunch.https://www.visitdornoch.com/eat-and-drink-in-dornoch/location/the-highland-larder/

3) If you have 30-40 minutes to spare on the drive between Nairn & Dornoch, make a detour off the A96 highway (less than 2 miles)  to see Castle Stuart/Cabot Highlands. It is just west of Inverness Airport. Walk down to the 1st tee and admire the views down the 1st and 10th fairways. I like the look of the clubhouse there. Some don't. Also go up to the men's locker room and admire the views while standing in front of the urinals. :)

4) #5 at Dornoch is one of the great short par-4's. Be sure to take a close look at the long, narrow green set at an angle to the fairway.

Have a great trip.

DT   
« Last Edit: June 01, 2024, 05:28:59 AM by David_Tepper »

Stewart Abramson

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Re: Scotland trip - little things not to be missed
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2024, 06:35:06 AM »


UK folks are not like Americans. Americans just strike up conversations with total strangers. In the UK that does not work. They cringe. You need to be invited to talk.


This has not been my experience. Many highlights of my dozen or so visits to the UK are the lengthy conversations and new friends made with locals at club houses, pubs etc. As long as you are sincere and polite people are just people... more alike than different, although from my experience the English tend to be more reserved than the Scots and the folks in Northern Ireland.