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Steve_ Shaffer

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Erie GC( Tillinghast,1921) in Erie, PA is for sale
« on: May 22, 2024, 06:09:57 PM »
One of Erie's oldest golf courses, Erie Golf Club was founded in 1921 and designed by A.W Tillinghast.

The course is currently owned by Millcreek Township and operated by 7637 Enterprises.18 holes shown via Flyovers
www.eriegc.com/




https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2023/10/30/erie-golf-club-millcreek-township-pennsylvania-municipal-golf-course/
« Last Edit: May 22, 2024, 07:51:16 PM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Richard Hetzel

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Re: Erie GC( Tillinghast,1921) in Erie, PA is for sale
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2024, 08:12:19 AM »
I may need to get up there and play it before it becomes a housing development!
Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

Phil Young

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Re: Erie GC( Tillinghast,1921) in Erie, PA is for sale
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2024, 08:49:30 AM »
Steve, only because you mentioned my early, 2004 Tilly biography am I mentioning my new, 2021-22, 4-volume compilation of the life and works of A. W. Tillinghast published under the title; The Tillinghast Chronicles. Volume II: The Golf Courses of A. W. Tillinghast, contains an 8-page chapter on the Erie Golf Club. If anyone is interested in more information send me a PM or email.


It is indeed a tragedy that there is nothing that can be done to prevent the loss of this beloved local course.


Daryl "Turboe" Boe

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Re: Erie GC( Tillinghast,1921) in Erie, PA is for sale
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2024, 09:19:44 AM »
Steve, only because you mentioned my early, 2004 Tilly biography am I mentioning my new, 2021-22, 4-volume compilation of the life and works of A. W. Tillinghast published under the title; The Tillinghast Chronicles. Volume II: The Golf Courses of A. W. Tillinghast, contains an 8-page chapter on the Erie Golf Club. If anyone is interested in more information send me a PM or email.


It is indeed a tragedy that there is nothing that can be done to prevent the loss of this beloved local course.


Wow, I used to live near that course when I was just getting into golf.  In fact I think it was around the 30th different golf course I ever played on my way to the current 2517.  I was not the golf nerd I am no at that point, and I had no idea it was Tillinghast.  I just remember it was close to may apartment and a fun/reasonable place to play.


Sad it is probably going away.  May need to make a trip up to see the work at Kahkwa as well, and play it one last time. 


Phil, I would love to hear a little more info on your thoughts since you wrote 8 pages on it.  Not asking to get the entire chapter for free, but would love to hear what you know about how much Tillie is still there etc.
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Phil Young

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Re: Erie GC( Tillinghast,1921) in Erie, PA is for sale
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2024, 10:25:14 AM »
Turboe, there is absolutely nothing left of what "Tillie" designed. There is, however some of what "TILLY"  ;)  designed is still there. Although I've never been to the course in person, in 2012, according to the decision handed down by the judge overseeing the case filed by a group of mostly women golfers who played Erie regularly against the City of Erie when they first attempted to sell the  golf course and property surrounding it to developers, "Just three years ago, the City of Erie hired Richard Mandell, a noted golf course architect, who redesigned and restored the Erie Golf Course consistent with the design or style of the golf course's original designer, A. W. Tillinghast...Not only is A. W. Tillinghast widely considered to be one of the greatest golf course designers to have ever lived, A. W. Tillinghast designed some of the most exclusive private golf courses, which have hosted the United States Open, the United States Amateur, the PGA Championship...Most golfers will never have the privilege of playing any of these exclusive, Tillinghast courses, and the Erie golf course is unique in that it provides golfers with an uncommon opportunity to play a course designed by a preeminent golf course designer."

This was but a small part of Justice Stephanie Domitrovitch's ruling that prevented the City from selling it at that time. It is without question that changing that ruling a dozen years later was both politically-motivated and very wrong...

Check your pm as I've sent you a further message regarding this.

Joe Bausch

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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Erik J. Barzeski

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Re: Erie GC( Tillinghast,1921) in Erie, PA is for sale
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2024, 10:21:59 PM »
I may need to get up there and play it before it becomes a housing development!
It's not worth the trip. I live < 1 mile from the course and can't remember the last time I played it. Several of the holes are completely new since even 2000, let alone 1921. Mandell has done some decent work, but… it's not a Tillinghast anymore.

I don't think it can become a housing development; something in the deed (it was gifted to the city of Erie at one point, I think) precludes it from being used for something other than golf for a long time. May have to do with the lawsuit mentioned, too.

It is indeed a tragedy that there is nothing that can be done to prevent the loss of this beloved local course.
For the past few years (5? Seems to be from the article, too), Millcreek has leased it to a third party. He paid… well, it's in the article. A pittance, basically… but he was apparently kind of a pain in the butt, so they're looking to sell instead of continuing to lease it out for a small amount each year.

I'm not sure I'd call it beloved, though my daughter won her first junior match play there (going to extra holes in every match as well as a playoff to get into the match play portion), and one of my college players won his EDGA match play title there.

The site is super hilly, and some of the holes go up and down them or are on steep side slopes. There are some decent holes, but there are also just a bunch of duds. It was "closed" for awhile prior to 2019, and people would just go use it as a field with obvious golf holes (they were doing minimal maintenance), and since it was paid for with tax money, they weren't super strict about not trespassing.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, Garland, and Chris.

Josh Bills

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Re: Erie GC( Tillinghast,1921) in Erie, PA is for sale
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2024, 10:08:41 AM »
I have driven past here many times and never thought to stop, I need to stop in this year, even if not much Tillinghast is left.  Here are some early aerials that look a little less tree lined, more interesting greens for sure.


1939 Aerial


1950 Aerial


1983 Aerial, doesn't look too overtreed.


« Last Edit: May 24, 2024, 10:12:18 AM by Josh Bills »

Phil Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erie GC( Tillinghast,1921) in Erie, PA is for sale
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2024, 10:51:19 AM »
Josh, were all three aerials taken the same year? I ask because there are significant differences on some of the holes, for example, the one in the upper right corner, there are no bunkers around the green whereas the other two photographs show them.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2024, 01:34:41 PM by Phil Young »

Richard Hetzel

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Re: Erie GC( Tillinghast,1921) in Erie, PA is for sale
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2024, 12:36:47 PM »
I am going to stop here and play on my way back from Long Island next month. It's 1.5 hrs out of my way; might as well. I'll post pics.
Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Erie GC( Tillinghast,1921) in Erie, PA is for sale
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2024, 06:46:22 PM »
Property Tours by appointment on June 10 -11 if you are interested. Call 717-648-4653 for an appointment.


"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tim Martin

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Re: Erie GC( Tillinghast,1921) in Erie, PA is for sale
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2024, 08:00:18 PM »
Turboe, there is absolutely nothing left of what "Tillie" designed. There is, however some of what "TILLY"  ;)  designed is still there. Although I've never been to the course in person, in 2012, according to the decision handed down by the judge overseeing the case filed by a group of mostly women golfers who played Erie regularly against the City of Erie when they first attempted to sell the  golf course and property surrounding it to developers, "Just three years ago, the City of Erie hired Richard Mandell, a noted golf course architect, who redesigned and restored the Erie Golf Course consistent with the design or style of the golf course's original designer, A. W. Tillinghast...Not only is A. W. Tillinghast widely considered to be one of the greatest golf course designers to have ever lived, A. W. Tillinghast designed some of the most exclusive private golf courses, which have hosted the United States Open, the United States Amateur, the PGA Championship...Most golfers will never have the privilege of playing any of these exclusive, Tillinghast courses, and the Erie golf course is unique in that it provides golfers with an uncommon opportunity to play a course designed by a preeminent golf course designer."

This was but a small part of Justice Stephanie Domitrovitch's ruling that prevented the City from selling it at that time. It is without question that changing that ruling a dozen years later was both politically-motivated and very wrong...

Check your pm as I've sent you a further message regarding this.


Phil-Was the original routing still intact when Mandell came on board? If so does “redesigned and restored “ mean it was changed? Thanks!

Phil Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erie GC( Tillinghast,1921) in Erie, PA is for sale
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2024, 09:17:18 PM »
Rich did the master plan for Erie in 2003. When they hired him the city had issues with a number of holes that would require both changes to some and eliminations of others requiring new ones to replace them.
      Under "General Renovation Notes" on the master plan, it states: "Erie Golf Club will undergo a complete renovation of its existing golf course to update the layout to modern standards, be more environmentally sensitive, and be more strategic and player friendly. This will require that all tees, greens and sand bunkers be rebuilt. In addition, five brand new golf holes will be built, three existing holes will be eliminated from the final layout, and original holes 15 and 16 will be combined into a new par five #14. As a result of the new layout many blind and unsafe situations will be eliminated."
      The paragraph that follows this shows that Rich was caught between a rock and a hard place and that he made every effort to save as much of the original Tillinghast design as he could while also following specific Tilly's design philosophies on a number of holes.
      He wrote, "The golf course will be redesigned adopting the design style and philosophy of the original golf architect, Albert Warren Tillinghast. The length of the golf course will be increased from 5,682 yards to 6,614 yards. The new fifth hole will more closely resemble Tillinghast's design intent which was never originally incorporated. Tillinghast declared this hole to be 'one of the finest three shot holes in country.' The new Erie layout will incorporate many Tillinghast standards, such as Elbow and Cape holes, an Alps feature and trademark fairway twists. More important than an overall increase in distance will be a greatly strengthened set of finishing holes."
      I do know that the course was greatly enjoyed by those who played it during the last two decades and how hard they fought to keep it from being closed. 




Richard Hetzel

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Re: Erie GC( Tillinghast,1921) in Erie, PA is for sale
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2024, 01:29:59 PM »
I played all 18 yesterday and I liked it. Of course it's not a destination course, but worth playing as some it is still quirky. I can post some pics if anyone wants to see them.
Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erie GC( Tillinghast,1921) in Erie, PA is for sale
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2024, 09:00:04 PM »
I played all 18 yesterday and I liked it. Of course it's not a destination course, but worth playing as some it is still quirky. I can post some pics if anyone wants to see them.
I mean… it's a Doak 2, no? Thanks for stopping by Erie. If you're still around, check out Whispering Woods (though tomorrow looks dreadful). Also, Downing hosted the PubLinks or something back in the 50s or thereabouts.

Edit: Ah, heck. 1969.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2024, 09:01:53 PM by Erik J. Barzeski »
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, Garland, and Chris.

Joe Bausch

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Re: Erie GC( Tillinghast,1921) in Erie, PA is for sale
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2024, 03:56:30 AM »
I played all 18 yesterday and I liked it. Of course it's not a destination course, but worth playing as some it is still quirky. I can post some pics if anyone wants to see them.


Yes, Richard!
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Richard Hetzel

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Re: Erie GC( Tillinghast,1921) in Erie, PA is for sale
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2024, 09:27:29 AM »
Joe, it was great meeting you at the Bridge, we'll have to play soon!


I'll post the Erie pics when I get home later.


I played with an Ohio private course super who was checking out the course for a potential buyer. Irrigation system needs $$$$$, I think it's all done by hand as I saw the wires all over the place and the irrigation control boxes removed. The $1.1 million price does not include any course equipment, that is owned by the guys who are currently leasing the course. So, you'll need a lot more more than $1.1 million.

Erik, TD's ratings don't dictate where I play my golf. At least Tom thought enough of it to actually go and see it. I'll play anywhere once. Now whether or not I ever return, that is the question. I would play here again. It was a fun round of golf, in fact I liked it better than Ferry Point Links that I played the day before.


Here is number 9 looking towards the green.








« Last Edit: June 14, 2024, 01:32:18 PM by Richard Hetzel »
Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erie GC( Tillinghast,1921) in Erie, PA is for sale
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2024, 02:13:43 PM »
Erik, TD's ratings don't dictate where I play my golf. At least Tom thought enough of it to actually go and see it.
I don't know that he did (I didn't check my edition of the CG) I'm simply asking you if you'd rate it a Doak 2. I considered giving it a 1, but… the holes aren't really "contrived" or anything, so I went with asking you if you thought it was a 2.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, Garland, and Chris.

Richard Hetzel

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Re: Erie GC( Tillinghast,1921) in Erie, PA is for sale
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2024, 02:32:42 PM »
Erik, TD's ratings don't dictate where I play my golf. At least Tom thought enough of it to actually go and see it.
I don't know that he did (I didn't check my edition of the CG) I'm simply asking you if you'd rate it a Doak 2. I considered giving it a 1, but… the holes aren't really "contrived" or anything, so I went with asking you if you thought it was a 2.
I don't use TD's rating system. I use my own and it goes like this:
1. Would I play here again?2. Would I play here and "only" here everyday and be happy.
Most of the time the answer is no. For Erie, it's a yes and a no. :)
Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erie GC( Tillinghast,1921) in Erie, PA is for sale
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2024, 03:18:32 PM »
I don't use TD's rating system. I use my own and it goes like this:
1. Would I play here again?2. Would I play here and "only" here everyday and be happy.
Most of the time the answer is no. For Erie, it's a yes and a no. :)
Okay. Thanks.

Next time you're in Erie, check out Whispering Woods and even Downing. And let me know… I'll buy you a coffee or something.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, Garland, and Chris.

Richard Hetzel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erie GC( Tillinghast,1921) in Erie, PA is for sale
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2024, 10:40:00 AM »
I don't use TD's rating system. I use my own and it goes like this:
1. Would I play here again?2. Would I play here and "only" here everyday and be happy.
Most of the time the answer is no. For Erie, it's a yes and a no. :)
Okay. Thanks.

Next time you're in Erie, check out Whispering Woods and even Downing. And let me know… I'll buy you a coffee or something.
I'll definitely do that!
Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

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