[Mark_Fine]

Pierre,
You are correct about some destination courses adding short courses.  I wish more would do it and or have the means and land to do it.  Many existing clubs/courses don’t.  Many classic courses as you probably know sold off their extra land if they had any and are locked in. Some don’t even have room for a decent driving range or warm up practice area.  My home club does still have land and is actually considering building a 9 hole par three course.  At one point there was talk of selling it off which would have been a big mistake.  Once it is gone it is gone. 


I have a project underway where we are planning to expand the existing nine hole par three course to 12 or 15 holes.  It will come down to funding as the first order of business is enhancing the current practice area/range as well as renovating the championship course. 


This idea is all about getting more people into the game of golf and making it more fun.  Most of us want to see the upward spike in golf we have at the moment to continue.  This 25 yards to start concept (Operation 36) is very popular at our club and elsewhere around the country.  Let’s hope it keeps growing. 

[Tim_Weiman]

Let me add my concerns to this topic. If Mark is describing  Operation 36, then that's all well and good, but such a program is targeted at people who both are already committed to learning golf via instruction, and also have the means and have already received guidance that this is a good way to learn.

While this is all fine and good for children of club members, presenting this as a general solution to on-boarding players leaves significant barriers in place for the general public, because you need to already exist in the golf ecosystem to practically begin this way. It also presents new players with the same practice-first-and-play-later paradigm that we seem to expect from new players.

Golf should be fun, feel rewarding, and not make people feel miserable from day one. Imagine if courses had one set of back tees at 7000 yards, and higher handicaps were expected to "go hit from the fairway until you learn to play better."   We have forward tees exactly because it should be fun for folks that aren't as skilled, and we should have the same type of formal infrastructure for beginners. That means quality putting courses, chipping courses, pitch & putts, and then finally short courses.

I may be too idealistic, but when I look at Scotland, where the game is deeply ingrained in the culture, we see these facilities. When I look at America, where the game is extremely niche, I see driving ranges, which people pretend are for beginners, but mostly serve advanced players.

Matt,


Not to hijack the thread, but I’m trying to understand why you appear to criticize the “practice-first-and-play-later” paradigm.


At Blackwolf Run I was once fixed up to play with a couple that had never played golf before. When I asked them why they decided to play  Blackwolf Run, they answered by saying “they heard it was a good course”.


Playing with them was torture. Don’t know how I made it two holes, before politely telling them I was going on by myself, but I couldn’t help all the groups behind them.


For private clubs without land for a Par 3 course, Mark’s idea probably isn’t bad. I actually did something similar on Old Barnwell’s upper loop with an 8 iron and putter, though next time I’d probably prefer to play from, say, 140 yards and hit full shot into the greens.


As for public access Par 3 or short courses, I suspect it would be difficult to get support for more of these in many communities. I love the Winter Park 9 and how it fits into the community, but would voters in a place like San Francisco support creating such a course?

[David_Tepper]

"I love the Winter Park 9 and how it fits into the community, but would voters in a place like San Francisco support creating such a course?"

Tim W. -

Are you aware of the long-existing 9-hole par-3 in Golden Gate Park in San Francisco. MANY golfers (including my wife) have gotten their start in the game there.

The course has very recently undergone a major (and very successful) renovation and is now run by the First Tee.

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/lists/golden-gate-park-golf-course-san-francisco-municipal-reopens-renovation-jay-blasi/ 

DT
 

[Padraig Dooley]

One of the hooks of golf is hitting the ball a relative long way with a good strike and yes starting beginning golfers closer to the hole is a good idea but you must give them an opportunity to learn to whack the ball as well.

[Tim_Weiman]

"I love the Winter Park 9 and how it fits into the community, but would voters in a place like San Francisco support creating such a course?"

Tim W. -

Are you aware of the long-existing 9-hole par-3 in Golden Gate Park in San Francisco. MANY golfers (including my wife) have gotten their start in the game there.

The course has very recently undergone a major (and very successful) renovation and is now run by the First Tee.

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/lists/golden-gate-park-golf-course-san-francisco-municipal-reopens-renovation-jay-blasi/ 

DT
 

David,


Thanks. Actually I wasn’t. Sounds good. Is there land and the will to do another?


Tim

[Tim_Weiman]

David,


FYI, Recreation Park in Long Beach also has a 9 hole course that is accessible, walkable and affordable.


Locals pay $14 on weekdays and $18 on weekends. For local seniors and juniors the weekday cost is $7.75.


I played it in the early 1990s with someone who was just taking up the game. Of course it doesn’t have the views of Golden Gate, but it is perfect for beginners.


Tim

[Steve Sayre]

Lots of good points on this thread. Let me add that part of the appeal of Operation 36 for participants is that they are in fact out on a golf course. This approach build excitement and engagement.  Playing catch in the yard with Dad is a nice way to learn a few baseball fundamentals, but stepping onto the Little League diamond is magical. Everyone here knows the beauty and majesty of a course, and beginners also appreciate the setting. Beginner adults also value the social dynamics of "group play" versus the solo practice range or chipping green experience. People feel they are playing golf, not just practicing.


Most Operation 36 programming takes place in the late afternoon/early evening, which avoids competing with "regular" play. As an aside, this programming also produces incremental revenue for the pro shop and, in many cases, the pro staff, including the woefully under-salaried assistants.

[Mark_Fine]

Steve,
Well said!!

[Craig Sweet]

Why would I want to support growing the game?  Courses are already too crowded with beginners hacking around 18 holes in 5 hours while blasting loud music, getting drunk and driving carts into bunkers and onto greens.

[jeffwarne]

For everyone suggesting people should just go to pitch and putts, I would remind you that they are fairly rare in the US, and almost unheard of if you don't live in a city. We used to have one in my area, and it shut down because no one ever used it.


Also, I caddie at a nearly Top 100 course and it has a short course at ~800 yards and it almost never gets used. So, as much as I am a fan of them, they aren't popular enough for anyone to invest money into building them, as far as I can tell, unless it's a resort and can be marketed into the package.

Spot on.
Which leads me to believe walking 350 yards x 9 times to play a 25 yard hole is not the ideal way to start someone.
why not just go to the putting or practice green and play a series of 25 yard holes?
That's practically a long putt....


Integrating the short game into program is essential to improvement-what good and qualified teacher wouldn't?
but taking the driver and every other club out of their bag until they accomplish a certain skill from 25-50 yards seems....well...a recipe for boredom and only will appeal to a certain type.
Might be proven by someone with "data" to be the BEST way to improve, but how many might you lose?

[Matt Schoolfield]

Matt,


Not to hijack the thread, but I’m trying to understand why you appear to criticize the “practice-first-and-play-later” paradigm.


At Blackwolf Run I was once fixed up to play with a couple that had never played golf before. When I asked them why they decided to play  Blackwolf Run, they answered by saying “they heard it was a good course”.


Playing with them was torture. Don’t know how I made it two holes, before politely telling them I was going on by myself, but I couldn’t help all the groups behind them.

I have written about this at length here: https://golfcoursewiki.substack.com/p/golf-for-non-golfers-getting-from

I criticize the practice-first-play-later paradigm exactly because we don't provide beginner facilities for playing golf... only for practicing golf. Most people want to learn by doing, in refusing to provide any beginner facilities we get a world where, as in your example, beginners trying to have fun are going to ruin everyone's day.

I fully recognize most people don't actually care about getting others into golf, but providing architecturally interesting putting and chipping courses would do a lot to help the game in the greater cultural space. So many people in America hate golf because it' so deeply difficult to understand the nuance. That's so difficult because we literally ask people to go to a range for months and months before showing them how fun it is to use the land to make a ball go where you want it to.

If we provide a series of facilities that get people addicted to golf, we have more people playing, and we have the opportunity to build more and better facilities for everyone.

[Thomas Dai]

A 25 yrd hole with a 50% rolled-back ball affectively plays 50 yards.
And a ‘soft’ ball which won’t injure someone or damage something can be used most places and provide fun and an introduction to the game for novices etc.

Atb

[Tim_Weiman]

Matt,


Not to hijack the thread, but I’m trying to understand why you appear to criticize the “practice-first-and-play-later” paradigm.


At Blackwolf Run I was once fixed up to play with a couple that had never played golf before. When I asked them why they decided to play  Blackwolf Run, they answered by saying “they heard it was a good course”.


Playing with them was torture. Don’t know how I made it two holes, before politely telling them I was going on by myself, but I couldn’t help all the groups behind them.

I have written about this at length here: https://golfcoursewiki.substack.com/p/golf-for-non-golfers-getting-from

I criticize the practice-first-play-later paradigm exactly because we don't provide beginner facilities for playing golf... only for practicing golf. Most people want to learn by doing, in refusing to provide any beginner facilities we get a world where, as in your example, beginners trying to have fun are going to ruin everyone's day.

I fully recognize most people don't actually care about getting others into golf, but providing architecturally interesting putting and chipping courses would do a lot to help the game in the greater cultural space. So many people in America hate golf because it' so deeply difficult to understand the nuance. That's so difficult because we literally ask people to go to a range for months and months before showing them how fun it is to use the land to make a ball go where you want it to.

If we provide a series of facilities that get people addicted to golf, we have more people playing, and we have the opportunity to build more and better facilities for everyone.

Matt,


In your hometown of San Francisco, is there support for additional facilities like you describe?


Tim

[Matt Schoolfield]

In your hometown of San Francisco, is there support for additional facilities like you describe?

As a point of order, I consider my "hometown" to be Austin, TX, even if I currently live in SF.

In San Francisco:

Most people here are familiar with the Jay Blasi update of Golden Gate Park Golf Course. I played there the day before it closed, and the day it opened back up. I wrote a extensive piece on the changes: https://golfcoursewiki.substack.com/p/a-preview-of-the-next-era-at-golden. I specifically go into detail about how I think Blasi's design is good explicitly because it keeps the course as beginners-first course, and only then as a fun afternoon for advanced players. My favorite changes are the fact that the forward tees are clearly designed to make each hole extremely forgiving, and my favorite hole change was the needlessly challenging, and entirely poorly thought out 9th hole (now the 5th), which has been shortened to make the land relevant. This facility is a god-sent for beginners.

Where I would like to see improvement: the redundant driving range at Harding may be able to be converted into a 9-hole chipping course, though, I honestly doubt the PGA would have any interest in doing that. There is a wasted area at Lincoln that could be converted into a small chipping course or putting course. I have even suggested reducing Gleneagles SF to a par 70 in order to open up enough space for an architecturally interesting chipping course on this section of the course.

Before people lose their minds about the costs involved with putting courses, aside from the benefits of sod farms on site, I honestly don't think most beginners need a putting course to be mowed below fairway height.

Austin has some exceptional versions of what I'm getting at:

The Joe Balander Short Course is a 4 hole short course that cost $5 to play (more info here: https://www.austintexas.gov/department/joe-balander-short-course). This is a type of facilitiy that lets beginners actually play golf as they learn.

The step up from there is everyone's favorite, Butler Pitch & Putt: https://butlerpitchandputt.com/. I played my first rounds of golf here, as did many Austinites.

After mastery at Butler, new players can graduate to the historic Hancock  GC: https://www.austintexas.gov/department/hancock-course, which is probably the oldest course in Texas, and is effectively maintained as a short beginners course.

With such quality onramping like this, it's no wonder that Austin, against all political expectations, is a massively pro-golf city able to hang onto historic facilities in spite of the housing shortage and strong pushes for changes in land use:

https://hancockgolfcourseconservancy.org

https://themunyconservancy.com

My concerns about the disconnect between private and municipal golf facilities, which is related to golf onramping, is discussed here: https://golfcoursewiki.substack.com/p/why-i-am-still-concerned-about-municipal

[David_Tepper]

Just as a reminder and to offer some perspective (and not to hijack this thread too much ), be aware that in Germany a golfer needs to demonstrate a certain level of proficiency to obtain a license to play a golf course.

https://internationalpga.com/you-need-a-license-to-play-golf-in-germany/     

Note that I am not endorsing this, but it would certainly be interesting to know how this impacts the growth of the game there.

[Daryl David]

Why would I want to support growing the game?  Courses are already too crowded with beginners hacking around 18 holes in 5 hours while blasting loud music, getting drunk and driving carts into bunkers and onto greens.

Wow. I never thought I would do this, but +1

[Kalen Braley]

I can't imagine my buddy and I were the only ones using the practice area for competitive chipping and putting games.

More times than I can count we'd spend hours coming up with all kinds of angles, lies, shots, etc instead of going out on the course.  And if we wanted to practice 40-80 yard shots we'd hit the range and have similar competitions.

Perhaps Craig is right, maybe most newbies just wanna go on the course and act a fool for 5 hours, instead of spending time on the practice area and learning how to play for a fraction of the price for a green fee with cart...

[jeffwarne]

I can't imagine my buddy and I were the only ones using the practice area for competitive chipping and putting games.

More times than I can count we'd spend hours coming up with all kinds of angles, lies, shots, etc instead of going out on the course.  And if we wanted to practice 40-80 yard shots we'd hit the range and have similar competitions.

Exactly.
I can't imagine paying a green fee to walk 350-500 yards between 25 yard holes-at any age, much less as a time constrained adult.
Golf CAN be learned on the course in a very controlled environment, and hitting a modern driver is quite easy these days for a beginner, and should not be left out of the learning/play process while you spend weeks/months getting to your mythical score of 36.
What is you never reach that score?
25 yard holes for life? ugh.
One size simply doesn't fit all.

[Mark_Fine]

Couple of thoughts, would most of you prefer to follow a foursome of new golfers playing from the regular tees and each taking seven or eight shots or more to play each hole or having that same group walk or drive their cart up to the 25 yard or 50 yard,… starting point for each hole and playing from there.  What do you think is going to be a better pace of play for all?


Golfers at most private clubs pay the same price to play whether they use the practice facilities or the main golf course.  For example at my club if you are a golfer you pay a monthly fee and can play as little or as often as you want for the same price (caddies and cart fees are extra).  If you carry your own bag it costs nothing extra.   And you can tee it up from any set of tees you like 


This concept is to get beginner golfers out on the actual golf course and get them slowly acclimated to playing on the real course.   As they graduate to the longer tees, they gain confidence and everything else that goes with playing golf with friends on the course. 


Let’s not forget, most of these players are trying to get around nine holes from these shorter tees in 36 shots so they can graduate to playing from a longer set of tees.  This is the same amount of shots many of us take from playing the tips. And for many of these players this is way more than chip and putt.  As I said before, many will be hitting woods when they get to the 75 yard tees and even at the 50 yard starting point many are hitting full iron shots to reach the green.  If they can average 4 shots on each hole they can quickly graduate and be on the regular tees in no time at all.  If not, then they (and everyone else playing behind them) are better off with these players playing from the shorter yardages.  Pace of play improves for all and everyone has more fun. What is wrong with that? 
Remember if they hit each green from their starting point of 25 or 50 yards and three putt each one they will hit their scoring target to graduate.  How hard can that be 😉



This is all voluntary and golfers that are doing this love it (even if some here don’t).  What a concept - everyone wins.  If a golfer wants to drop out they drop out.  They can then go back to the practice range, just play from now on from the regular tees and hold up play    or give up the game altogether.  Let’s hope they keep trying and keep graduating to the longer tees. 

[Matt Schoolfield]

Mark, I still feel like I've quite confused. I really agree with everything you're saying except on how it fits with new players:

Golfers at most private clubs pay the same price to play whether they use the practice facilities or the main golf course.  For example at my club if you are a golfer you pay a monthly fee and can play as little or as often as you want for the same price (caddies and cart fees are extra).  If you carry your own bag it costs nothing extra.   And you can tee it up from any set of tees you like 

I guess I just cannot imagine a scenario where a person decides they want to learn to play golf, and the first thing they do is... join a private club? I mean... I think this might be an effective strategy for immediate family members of certified golf sickos, and maybe the uber wealthy, but it seems like a exceedingly odd way of learning golf for a normal person curious about golf. I feel like I'm really missing something here. Beyond that, I fully agree that it's probably a good way to learn!

[Mark_Fine]

Matt,
Many times a couple joins a private club because one of the two play golf avidly and then the other partner decides they want to learn to play the game as well


This happens all the time!  Also kids of members get into the game and need to learn or members who joined for the social aspect or for the tennis,.. decide they want to learn to play golf as well. 


Do you think they should all go play elsewhere rather than learn at their own club?

[Joe Hancock]

Where I learned the game, which was a mom-and-pop 18 hole course, we played in a couples league with new golfers, male and female. Sometimes it would take 8-10 shots for the beginning golfer to reach a green. Our commitment to the game was to encourage those players to keep trying, keep moving and have fun. I sometimes wasn’t thrilled with those long rounds, but that was part of the deal.


That course survived on golf leagues. It’s where people learned the game, played the game, and had fun together. It involved walkers, riders and pull carts…..men, women, seniors, etc. It took a little longer, but there were a lot of golfers willing to sacrifice some time and energy to grow the game, likely without knowing or expecting to be compensated for it.

[A.G._Crockett]

Start beginning golfers who are playing say a par 70-72 golf course for the first or second time 25 yards in front of every green.  When they can shoot 36 or better for nine holes, move them back to 50 yards from each green and continue the process. 


This not only teaches players to get the ball in the hole but is much more fun and less intimidating as they begin to learn to play on a full scale golf course. 


Of course 25 yards to start is arbitrary but you get the point. 


My home club has implemented this practice in their beginner golf program.


Note:  In all honesty, all of us, regardless of ability, could have fun with this.  I wonder how many of us could shoot under 22 or 23 from 25 yards out for nine holes.  What a great way to challenge yourself or get a few wagers going during an off peak time at your club.

Mark,


It’s a great idea; don’t be bothered by the Grumpy Old Men Syndrome that infects this board.


One of the changes that went into effect earlier this year is that short courses can now be rated and scores posted.  My club has just finished laying out a short course utilizing range mats on all the par 4’s and 5’s to create a full 18 hole par 3 course.  Most of the holes are under 100 yds.  The mats are outside the rough near the tree lines, and very much out of normal play, and will be pretty close to zero maintenance. 


It’s a very cool idea; our superintendent came up with it, and the rest of the golf staff quickly jumped on board and made it happen.  I have no idea how much play it will get, or who will be playing it, but it’s an attempt to find ways to engage more people, especially kids, in spending more time on the course. 


I can’t think of a downside to that.

[Rob Marshall]

Mark, I still feel like I've quite confused. I really agree with everything you're saying except on how it fits with new players:

Golfers at most private clubs pay the same price to play whether they use the practice facilities or the main golf course.  For example at my club if you are a golfer you pay a monthly fee and can play as little or as often as you want for the same price (caddies and cart fees are extra).  If you carry your own bag it costs nothing extra.   And you can tee it up from any set of tees you like 

I guess I just cannot imagine a scenario where a person decides they want to learn to play golf, and the first thing they do is... join a private club? I mean... I think this might be an effective strategy for immediate family members of certified golf sickos, and maybe the uber wealthy, but it seems like a exceedingly odd way of learning golf for a normal person curious about golf. I feel like I'm really missing something here. Beyond that, I fully agree that it's probably a good way to learn!

Matt,
You don't need to be be Uber Wealthy to join a private club. I'm a member at private club and I play with retired school teachers, a painter, a pilot,............It certainly isn't cheap and I don't mean to imply that. No one IMO, is joining a private club because the are curious about golf.

[Ian Mackenzie]

We are fortunate to have a fantastic driving range that sits on the site of an old polo field.
The range was redone 10 years ago and target greens were built that can actually be played as a 7 hole short course. (And it is open for play late Sunday afternoons.)


Before junior golfers (as in 12 or younger) are allowed access to the "big course", they must complete a "test" of sorts and navigate around the short course in good order in front of one of the assistant pros.


Great training that many adult members should also do...;-)

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