Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?

[David_Tepper]

And is the Queen's the 2nd best?

Unless I have missed it, these 2 course have had very little discussion here over the past 20 years.

https://gleneagles.com/golf/the-kings/

[Mike Worth]

I played both courses last summer


Although I’ve played quite a bit of golf in Scotland, I’m not sure I’m informed enough to opine whether Kings is the best Inland course. But personally, I did enjoy the course a lot, and I found it to be quite good. I think i gave it a Doak scale 7


I was less impressed with Queens — it has many strong individual holes, but taken as a whole I wasn’t as impressed with it as you suggest in your post.  I think I gave it a Doak scale 5.5 or 6. if I was to be asked why I feel as I do about Queens, I probably couldn’t precisely define it. It’s just a gut feeling based on my first impressions.

[Sean_A]

And is the Queen's the 2nd best?

Unless I have missed it, these 2 course have had very little discussion here over the past 20 years.

https://gleneagles.com/golf/the-kings/

I will do better. Kings is one of the best inland courses in GB&I. I think it deserves a spot at the front table of Scottish courses that should be played.


Ciao

[jeffwarne]

Has anyone played Lanark GC?
I'm staying there a couple of nights this summer.
Other than a few bunkers buried in the rough, looks mighty good.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6JqCBD3YL0

[Simon Barrington]

Has anyone played Lanark GC?
I'm staying there a couple of nights this summer.
Other than a few bunkers buried in the rough, looks mighty good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6JqCBD3YL0

Lanark is a very good course, OTM followed by Braid.
Certainly has an inland Gleneagles feel, it is on a good piece of land up there and the work of two legends combine to get a fine result.


Somewhat underappreciated, it is a stern but enjoyable test (used to play there in their Newlands Trophy, back in my Uni days).
Great turf, rolling fairways and well-positioned hazards (but they were not in the rough back then!)


Some dislike the finishing Par 3, I liked the quirk and if you are chasing a score, a Par 3 to finish can flatter.
Have a great visit, I look forward to hearing your thoughts afterwards.

[Simon Barrington]

And is the Queen's the 2nd best?

Unless I have missed it, these 2 course have had very little discussion here over the past 20 years.

https://gleneagles.com/golf/the-kings/

The Kings is right up there for sure.

The Queens has very tough competition for No.2 (Blairgowrie Rosemount, Lanark, The "Boat", Scotscraig, Edzell, East Ren, Downfield, and Forfar spring to mind from Braid's canon alone; plus modern competition from Loch Lomond, The Dukes, Archerfield, Gleneagles PGA Centenary etc.).

These 36 (originally 27) Braid (assisted by CK Hutchinson) Holes at Gleneagles are a great example of his design talent, when he had both the time and money.

I have lots more on them both, which I'll share in a while, including some notable discoveries I have made regarding Braid's use of Sherlock Holmes like "Parallel Instances" as described by Bernard Darwin (in his Biography of the great man). Braid templated or was inspired by the best of his own (and others work) if and when he found the right topography to do so.

Just need to work out how to add photo's on here (any tips welcome on that)


EDITED : Scotscraig (although many say it is a links) replacing my error of memory (Ladybank, which should also be in the mix of course, an OTM classic)

[Ian Cox]

The Kings is an excellent golf course, when you combine the variety of the holes, Braids sensational routing (very challenging parcel of land) with the truly epic setting, scenery and topography, the recently restored width along with fine turf you have a golf course that is for me, all world…

I happily rank it alongside any inland golf course in the world, it makes as much (if not more) out of the sum of its parts as any other great inland course.

I’ve had the pleasure of playing with first timers on a few occasions, they were blown away and could not understand how they had not found the course sooner, some had to be persuaded to head inland.

The Queens has so much charm, fun, challenge and quirk, whilst I’d not say it’s the number two inland course in Scotland, I would happily say that as a 36 hole venue, only Sunningdale can be compared in the UK, and there are not many globally that are a close match for a 36 hole day (the shorter Queens is a nice change of pace for a second eighteen).
Ian

[JohnVDB]

There is an article in Apple News from this week’s Sunday Times naming Gleneagles the UK’s best place to stay in 2024 where their managing director makes a Trumpian level claim that they have the best golf courses in the world:

In 1921 Gleneagles hosted the first match between American and British professional golfers, a precursor to the Ryder Cup, and its courses are said to be the best in the world — they make for a stunning walk, whether or not you’re playing a round — but this can present its own challenges. “Introducing any new activity is a risk, and always has been,” O’Leary says. “Having the best golf course in the world means that everything else also has to be the best in the world, or what’s the point?”

[Matt Schoolfield]

The Shetlands have two inland courses: Asta and Shetland GC. Anyone played those?

[Niall C]

David,


Gleneagles is certainly a stand out in terms of grandeur and scale. While its been decades since I played the courses I always thought more of the Queens as it was/is more charming while the Kings was more muscular. I'm not sure that necessarily makes the Queens "better" but I know quite a few folk who agree with me in preferring it to the Kings.


What's the competition ? Well, there's a few names banded about already but I tend to think Loch Lomond is the one course that can compete in terms of grandeur, scale and of course quality.


Niall

[Niall C]

Blairgowrie Rosemount, Lanark, The "Boat", Ladybank, Edzell, East Ren, Downfield, and Forfar spring to mind from Braid's canon alone

Simon


I tend to think you're being a bit heavy handed in dishing out the credit to Braid with that list. East Ren is possibly the only original design on there and I don't think he did anything at Ladybank but FBD no doubt will advise. The others mentioned are redesigns at most or mainly a bunkering scheme in the case of Forfar. That's not to say he didn't do good work at those courses, but what's there isn't all his work which is what I think you infer.


Niall

[Simon Barrington]

Blairgowrie Rosemount, Lanark, The "Boat", Ladybank, Edzell, East Ren, Downfield, and Forfar spring to mind from Braid's canon alone

Simon

I tend to think you're being a bit heavy handed in dishing out the credit to Braid with that list. East Ren is possibly the only original design on there and I don't think he did anything at Ladybank but FBD no doubt will advise. The others mentioned are redesigns at most or mainly a bunkering scheme in the case of Forfar. That's not to say he didn't do good work at those courses, but what's there isn't all his work which is what I think you infer.

Niall

My apologies, a genuine mistake and senior moment by me as was thinking about nearby Scotscraig; not Ladybank, which is of course is by OTM.

[jeffwarne]

Best inland course in "the world" seems quite a stretch, given the high quality and deep bench of the the country just to the south of Scotland...


Scotland perhaps, though I need a bigger sampling size:)



I have a soft spot in my heart for Gleneagles Kings, having competed in the Senior Open there, as well as Blairgowrie Rosemount where I shot -3 to qualify for Gleneagles, but while I greatly enjoyed both, I can't put them in the same category as Sunningdale, Walton Heath, St. George's Hill, Ferndown  etc. The turf at The Kings was incredibly firm and fast during the (dry weekdays), but when the weekend rains hit, it was clear it was not links or even heathland turf, growing quite mucky quite quickly.

[Marty Bonnar]

There’s not much OTM left at Ladybank now. He originally laid out an out-and-back twelve holes on the land which is now where 16-18 are. There’s been quite a few changes/extensions/alterations over the years with the now front nine pretty much the ‘newest’ holes of the course.
Seeing original photos from the early days, it really was a proper heathland with very few trees, although old maps show there had been a large old woodland back in the day which had been cleared before the course was developed. The current trees mostly date from the 50s, but luckily recent storms and big winds are doing a fine job of thinning out much of the poorer stock. We’re also transplanting a lot of heather, placing it in carefully chosen out-of-play areas, bringing back a lovely proper heathland look. A big bunker refurb job was finished a couple of years ago which is still being ‘fine-tuned’ by our phenomenal Course Manager and his team.
Happy to host anytime - hopefully some of this year’s BUDA Pests might find the time for a visit!
Cheers,
F.

[Clyde Johnson]

Has anyone played Lanark GC?
I'm staying there a couple of nights this summer.
Other than a few bunkers buried in the rough, looks mighty good.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6JqCBD3YL0

Jeff I'm 'based' in my wife's hometown these days, which is about five minutes from Lanark, though I'll likely be up north this summer. You'll like the golf course: sporty, varied, and with a handful of very good holes, including the eleventh which combines out-of-bounds with a semi-blind to blind approach. I preferred the par-three eighteenth before they tarmac-ed the track which cuts tight in front of it, but still an unusual finisher. Doak 5 to 6.


I think you'd enjoy Carnwath too, which is just ten minutes up the road. It gives me Gleneagles vibes in places, on a much more compact scale and with a bunch of cross-overs. The first hole plays to the base of a motte.


Also, Leadhills, if you get a sunny day for it. Rudimentary and exposed, but it has a great par-five with a green which might be even slope-ier than the one you played at Kawhia. (Now that's a niche comparison!)


...


On the topic, I'd think my Scottish inland top-five would be:
1. Gleneagle's Kings
2. Gleneagle's Queens
...
3. Boat of Garten
...
(any one of a bunch of Doak 5s, but probably...)
4. Lanark
5. Pitlochry

[Mike_Clayton]

Clyde,


Is Comrie any good?

[Niall C]

Mike


Comrie is a nine holer that largely plays back and forth across a hill. It has a bit of a moorland feel to with some really nice holes. That corner of the country has a number of nine holers one of which Tom D recommended at Killen.


Clyde


Interesting comment on Carnwath. Never played it and have never really heard anything encouraging from those that have, principally my brother. If you think it worth a hit then clearly I've been missing something ?


Niall

[Niall C]

On the topic, I'd think my Scottish inland top-five would be:
1. Gleneagle's Kings
2. Gleneagle's Queens
...
3. Boat of Garten
...
(any one of a bunch of Doak 5s, but probably...)
4. Lanark
5. Pitlochry

What about the likes of Glenbervie or Pitreavie to challenge Boat of Garten ? Or even Elgin ? Not as scenic but a better course in my view. Nothing against B of G which is a course I like but struggling to see it a notch above those mentioned.


Niall

[Mike_Clayton]

Mike


Comrie is a nine holer that largely plays back and forth across a hill. It has a bit of a moorland feel to with some really nice holes. That corner of the country has a number of nine holers one of which Tom D recommended at Killen.


Niall,


Thanks - I'm planning on catching up with Ally Philip there in the summer. He did say he needed a little ammunition to help with the trees!


Clyde


Interesting comment on Carnwath. Never played it and have never really heard anything encouraging from those that have, principally my brother. If you think it worth a hit then clearly I've been missing something ?


Niall

[Sean_A]

Wait a minute. Do we have GCA.com consensus for Glen Kings? What a glorious Monday.


Ciao

[Niall C]

Wait a minute. Do we have GCA.com consensus for Glen Kings? What a glorious Monday.


Ciao

We'll soon sort that !


Niall

[Robin_Hiseman]

I'd agree that the King's is both the best and my favourite, but Loch Lomond cannot be ignored. It might not be in favour on this forum, but it's presence has to be acknowledged.


I'd put the Queens at 3 and Rosemount at 4.


If GWest was open, it would have a strong claim for top spot.


There was a time when Downfield would have been part of the discussion. I wonder how it is now?


Kilmacolm is a treat and East Ren well up there too. Got a soft spot for the Duke's as well.

[Tim Gallant]

I'd agree that the King's is both the best and my favourite, but Loch Lomond cannot be ignored. It might not be in favour on this forum, but it's presence has to be acknowledged.


I'd put the Queens at 3 and Rosemount at 4.


If GWest was open, it would have a strong claim for top spot.


There was a time when Downfield would have been part of the discussion. I wonder how it is now?


Kilmacolm is a treat and East Ren well up there too. Got a soft spot for the Duke's as well.

Agreed Robin!


I think Loch Lomond is the clear Number 2. The flow of the round works really well at LL, and I love holes like 2, 9, 10, 13, and 14. Much of the criticism about the course was about the softness of the turf, but I've been told that's been (partially) rectified?

[Robin_Hiseman]

Hi Tim


They spent £7.5m sand capping the entire place, so one would hope that has solved that problem!


https://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/content/loch-lomond-nears-completion-of-huge-drainage-project

Still the problem of the midgies though.

[Niall C]

I think Loch Lomond is the clear Number 2. The flow of the round works really well at LL, and I love holes like 2, 9, 10, 13, and 14. Much of the criticism about the course was about the softness of the turf, but I've been told that's been (partially) rectified?

Tim


I think a lot of the criticism was that it was too "American" a design, by which I think most folk meant it was too modern compared to more traditional Scottish courses. Even then most critics had to admit that it is still a bloody good design.


Niall