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John Mayhugh

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Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2024, 08:20:14 AM »
I really wanted to visit Gleneagles for the first time pre-Buda, but the Queens wasn't available the day I could play. At 325 pounds for one round and 550 for two, I really should think about April some year.

Keith Phillips

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Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2024, 09:06:31 AM »
I played King's once and enjoyed it very much, but feel that Loch Lomond has fallen too far in the ranking from its early elevated status. I was a member in the 2000s and played dozens of rounds there - I was generally lucky with the weather and fell in love with the course.  A great blend of long and short holes presenting their own challenges.  The short par-4s 9 and 14, the great downhill holes 10 and 13, a good mix of par 3s highlighted by the 5th with the green falling from front to back toward the loch. Capped off by an all-world clubhouse (I know - not golf) with Willie entertaining all in the men's locker room!  I left the club for the same reason I think it has fallen in the rankings - folks fly across the Atlantic to play links golf not parkland - but I still have fond memories!

Clyde Johnson

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Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2024, 02:39:02 PM »
Clyde,


Is Comrie any good?


Just as Niall describes it really, a charming nine-holer in an area full of charming nine-holers. Killin is cool, but I think Strathtay might be my favourite of those.


What about the likes of Glenbervie or Pitreavie to challenge Boat of Garten ? Or even Elgin ? Not as scenic but a better course in my view. Nothing against B of G which is a course I like but struggling to see it a notch above those mentioned.


Niall




There's perhaps a bit of recency bias in my favour towards Boat of Garten, as I've walked it one and half times in the past twelve months, but I value a sense of place and unusual landscape more than most. Plus there's a bunch of interesting stances and testy shots to try out.


There's a batch of interesting courses that would vie for that next bracket down - Blairgowrie (Rosemount), East Renfrewshire, Kilmalcolm, Lanark, Ladybank, Pitlochry, Pitreavie, Scotscraig (?) - but it's probably not worth the energy in trying to distinguish between their qualities and failings. 


I've only ever toured Loch Lomond and G West. They don't have the architectural grandeur or sense of adventure to compel more than the Kings, but I think it would be an interesting debate between those and the Queens - one which ultimately would come down to taste, as always.


Downfield is a decent parkland, choked by trees, in my book.




Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2024, 03:51:56 PM »
I really wanted to visit Gleneagles for the first time pre-Buda, but the Queens wasn't available the day I could play. At 325 pounds for one round and 550 for two, I really should think about April some year.


....then two of us could scratch that itch!!!


Any interest in a GCA 4 ball or more?






I've never managed to be in the right place but they have sometimes reduced prices by selling the tee time. So if you can get 4 golfers the rate pp is something like halved. My understanding it happens when things are quiet sometimes in peak season, and there's only 7-10 days notice at best.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Mark Pearce

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Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2024, 05:23:47 PM »
I really wanted to visit Gleneagles for the first time pre-Buda, but the Queens wasn't available the day I could play. At 325 pounds for one round and 550 for two, I really should think about April some year.


....then two of us could scratch that itch!!!


Any interest in a GCA 4 ball or more?






I've never managed to be in the right place but they have sometimes reduced prices by selling the tee time. So if you can get 4 golfers the rate pp is something like halved. My understanding it happens when things are quiet sometimes in peak season, and there's only 7-10 days notice at best.
Count me as interested
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Ira Fishman

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Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2024, 05:50:54 PM »
I cannot compare Kings and Queens to other inland courses in Scotland because Blairgowrie Rosemont is the only other one we have played. But in terms of value, although both are costly, I would pony up again before doing so for either Castle Stuart or Kingsbarns.


On our visit to Scotland last year, I thought it was a toss up between Kings and Royal Aberdeen for best course. And the "competition" included Cruden Bay.


Btw, Blairgowrie was a pleasant surprise. We played it on the way from Gleneagles to Aberdeen. Not worth a special trip but a solid play if convenient, particularly the finishing holes.


If you do schedule a play at Gleneagles, stay at the Cairn Lodge. It is just down the road, far less expensive with a beautiful restaurant and comfortable lounge. And the food is quite good.


Ira
« Last Edit: March 04, 2024, 06:01:03 PM by Ira Fishman »

Niall C

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Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2024, 08:25:07 AM »
Sunday to Thursday in 2024.
[/size][/color]After 11.30am in March on The King’s and The Queen’s only[/font]
[/size][/color]£400 (4 ball only)[/font]
[/size][/color]After 1.30pm in April[/font]
[/size][/color]£230 (2 ball)£330 (3 ball)£420 (4 ball)[/font]
[/size][/color]After 2.30pm in May[/font]
[/size][/color]£260 (2 ball)£375 (3 ball)£460 (4 ball)[/font]
[/size][/color]After 3.30pm in June[/font]
[/size][/color]£300 (2 ball)£435 (3 ball)£560 (4 ball)[/font]
[/size][/color]After 3.30pm in July[/font]
[/size][/color]£360 (2 ball)£495 (3 ball)£640 (4 ball)[/font]
[/size][/color]After 2.00pm in August & September[/font]
[/size][/color]£360 (2 ball)£495 (3 ball)£640 (4 ball)[/font]
[/size][/color]After 2.00pm in October[/font]
[/size][/color]£260 (2 ball)£375 (3 ball)£460 (4 ball)[/font]
[/size][/color][/font]
[/size][/color]Niall[/font]

Niall C

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Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2024, 08:26:25 AM »
Sorry, haven't the patience to sort the formatting but hopefully everyone can make sense of the previous post.


Niall

Simon Barrington

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Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2024, 09:30:44 AM »
Sunday to Thursday in 2024.

After 11.30am in March on The King’s and The Queen’s

        only £400 (4 ball only)

After 1.30pm in April

        £230 (2 ball) £330 (3 ball) £420 (4 ball)

After 2.30pm in May

        £260 (2 ball) £375 (3 ball) £460 (4 ball)

After 3.30pm in June

         £300 (2 ball) £435 (3 ball) £560 (4 ball)

After 3.30pm in July

         £360 (2 ball) £495 (3 ball) £640 (4 ball)

After 2.00pm in August & September

        £360 (2 ball) £495 (3 ball) £640 (4 ball)

After 2.00pm in October
        £260 (2 ball) £375 (3 ball) £460 (4 ball)

Niall
Glad to assist Niall
Best
Simon
« Last Edit: March 05, 2024, 09:32:15 AM by Simon Barrington »

Matt Schoolfield

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Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2024, 05:31:16 PM »
What are people's thoughts on the King James VI course? I'm working thorough all the courses in Scotland and this one caught my eye. The course is on a small island on the River Tay. Seems like a wildly interesting setting for an inland course.
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Marty Bonnar

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Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2024, 05:39:52 PM »
What are people's thoughts on the King James VI course? I'm working thorough all the courses in Scotland and this one caught my eye. The course is on a small island on the River Tay. Seems like a wildly interesting setting for an inland course.


Sadly, nowhere as exotic as it may appear. It’s quite an interesting adventure getting there though, as you can only get in by walking across a long railway bridge. The course is nothing special despite the OTM history, but there is some interest in the flood prevention measures used as strategic elements!
One to add to the list and move swiftly along.
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Robin_Hiseman

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Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2024, 09:51:22 AM »
Anybody know much about the new course under construction at Taymouth Castle? Looks like its getting a full sand cap.


From what I can gather, the 18-hole redevelopment previously undertaken by Weller Designs has been demolished, having never even opened.
2024: RSt.D; Mill Ride; Milford; Notts; JCB, Jameson Links, Druids Glen, Royal Dublin, Portmarnock, Old Head, Addington, Parkstone, Denham, Thurlestone, Dartmouth, Rustic Canyon, LACC (N), MPCC (Shore), Cal Club, San Fran, Epsom, Casa Serena, Hayling, Co. Sligo, Strandhill, Carne, Cleeve Hill

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2024, 10:17:51 AM »
Anybody know much about the new course under construction at Taymouth Castle? Looks like its getting a full sand cap.

From what I can gather, the 18-hole redevelopment previously undertaken by Weller Designs has been demolished, having never even opened.


Only that it's a Discovery Land project, their first in the UK, and they're apparently investing £300 million in the place. And that Beau Welling is doing the redesign.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2024, 10:20:21 AM by Adam Lawrence »
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Niall C

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Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2024, 10:41:08 AM »
Re Taymouth Castle - I walked part of the course a few years ago and it basically was ready to play then with the pins on the greens from memory. It appeared to be a mix of new holes/greens with a retention of some of the Braid holes/greens. I think I looked it up on the internet and it said it wasn't open for play, or perhaps limited play was allowed for "owners" - can't recall. At that time I think the building was still a development site and it was uncertain what was happening with it.


Since then it has been bought over as per Adams post and there has been a lot of negative local press around the developer buying surrounding land and businesses leading to fears by many in the local community that they are trying to turn the village into some sort of gated community.


Niall
« Last Edit: March 07, 2024, 10:49:02 AM by Niall C »

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2024, 11:01:37 AM »
Re Taymouth Castle - I walked part of the course a few years ago and it basically was ready to play then with the pins on the greens from memory. It appeared to be a mix of new holes/greens with a retention of some of the Braid holes/greens. I think I looked it up on the internet and it said it wasn't open for play, or perhaps limited play was allowed for "owners" - can't recall. At that time I think the building was still a development site and it was uncertain what was happening with it.

Since then it has been bought over as per Adams post and there has been a lot of negative local press around the developer buying surrounding land and businesses leading to fears by many in the local community that they are trying to turn the village into some sort of gated community.

Niall


I visited on a press trip fully ten years ago. The course, as Robin says, had been redone by Weller. It was nice, but it didn't set me alight. I remember Boony saying that he had played the original Braid course a lot on his Scottish holidays. A glorious spot for certain. I'm intrigued as to whether Beau has completely rebuilt the course from the ground up, including a new routing, or whether he's basically just redone the original holes -- I had a look on the council planning site, but couldn't find the planning consent. I did read one article that suggested Discovery were relying on the planning consent from 2011 for the golf course works, which suggests it's a redo rather than a whole new course. But we shall see. Or some of us will. I've never got a peep out of Discovery whenever I've inquired about any of their projects!
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Niall C

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Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #40 on: March 07, 2024, 11:17:00 AM »
Adam


I suppose you could use the Right to Roam legislation and just go and have a look  :)


That's an interesting thought about the planning permission. I suppose if a completion certificate wasn't issued previously then they could argue the development is still ongoing ?


Niall

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #41 on: March 07, 2024, 11:21:46 AM »
Adam

I suppose you could use the Right to Roam legislation and just go and have a look  :)

That's an interesting thought about the planning permission. I suppose if a completion certificate wasn't issued previously then they could argue the development is still ongoing ?

Niall


You could, perhaps. It's rather a long drive for me.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Niall C

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Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #42 on: March 07, 2024, 12:16:32 PM »
Adam


I don't know when you last checked their website but it appears to have been updated (created ?) 7th February and tackles head on the issues over access etc. It's remarkably and commendably free of hype, jargon and bs. It provides a link to the Council planning portal where you can access a general statement from the Council on Taymouth Castle, presumably on the back of a high degree of local concern.


With regards the planning situation, they are working off previous consents and making applications for amendments as they go along, those amendments appear to be mainly regarding a reduction in residential units presumably so that they can build more high end units. With regards the golf course, they are referring to it as a "restoration". Interestingly the developers website has a masterplan which shows the course, however the layout differs to what is on the ground now. If you check google earth you can see that there has already been a degree of earth moving.


Niall

Simon Barrington

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Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #43 on: March 07, 2024, 06:04:45 PM »
Adam


I don't know when you last checked their website but it appears to have been updated (created ?) 7th February and tackles head on the issues over access etc. It's remarkably and commendably free of hype, jargon and bs. It provides a link to the Council planning portal where you can access a general statement from the Council on Taymouth Castle, presumably on the back of a high degree of local concern.


With regards the planning situation, they are working off previous consents and making applications for amendments as they go along, those amendments appear to be mainly regarding a reduction in residential units presumably so that they can build more high end units. With regards the golf course, they are referring to it as a "restoration". Interestingly the developers website has a masterplan which shows the course, however the layout differs to what is on the ground now. If you check google earth you can see that there has already been a degree of earth moving.


Niall
Thanks Adam and Niall for the background, if you do discover more very interested as in the process (will take a lifetime) of documenting what remains of JB's work. Sounds like some survived the previous (unopened) incarnation, keen to know what remains post this "restoration" of the "restoration". All information welcome, Cheers

Robin_Hiseman

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Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2024, 06:00:25 AM »
With respect to Ben, who asked the same question last year, here is a link to that thread. I recommend following the links to learn more.


https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,72214.msg1735667.html#msg1735667


I played the Braid original a couple of times. Charming, pretty and typical Braid styling. The decaying castle was a brooding backdrop to a modest and humble golf club, operating out of a quaint Victorian style pavilion and charging a modest green fee.
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Matt Schoolfield

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Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #45 on: March 14, 2024, 06:58:18 PM »
Has anyone played Hayston GC? According to their website, one of the club officers was personal friends with James Braid, who apparently tweaked there course many, many times as a personal favor. I guess I figured if that was the relationship, perhaps the course is something special. 
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Bret Lawrence

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Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #46 on: March 14, 2024, 09:59:03 PM »
Here are some photographs of Gleneagles King's Course-August 30, 1964. 


All of these images come from the Michigan State University Turfgrass Information Center-Noer/Milorganite Image Collection.
Descriptions below accompanied the images in the collection.


Signal Bell behind #3:


#4 Broomy Law green:


#6 Blink Bonnie to green:


#7 Kittle Kink Tee:


#7 Kittle Kink to green:


#8 Whaups Nest Tee:


#9 Heich O' Fash:


#10 Carty Lye from hill out from tee:


#10 Carty Lye to green:


#12 Tappit Hen from tee:


#13 Braids Brawest to green:


#15 Howe O' Hope to green:


#16 Wee Bogle from tee:

« Last Edit: March 14, 2024, 10:07:35 PM by Bret Lawrence »

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #47 on: March 14, 2024, 10:06:36 PM »
Bret L. -

Thanks for those pics. I really like the look of those bunkers.

DT

p.s.  Shell's WWoG hosted an episode on the King's in 1963. Gene Littler played Eric Brown. Can't find it on youtube.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2024, 10:13:34 PM by David_Tepper »

Bret Lawrence

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Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #48 on: March 14, 2024, 10:35:10 PM »
David,


Glad you enjoyed them.  I agree.  I really like the look of those bunkers too.  I’ve never played Gleneagles, but I’d like to after seeing some of the pictures. The collection at tic.msu.edu also includes a dozen or so images from the Queen’s course.


If you click on this link: https://tic.msu.edu/noerslides
Select Browse Location
then Select Scotland.


Half of the images in the Scotland collection are from Gleneagles.


Bret

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is the King's at Gleneagles the best inland course in Scotland?
« Reply #49 on: March 17, 2024, 05:27:15 AM »
Thanks for the pix Bret. It’s remarkable how similar the course today matches these photos.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

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