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Michael Moore

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Re: Is Royal Birkdale a good course?
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2024, 03:05:56 PM »
Having played last week, I'll bite.
 
Royal Birkdale is a very, very good golf course. Yes, the fairways are flat, yes the green contours are humble, no, you can't see the ocean, yes, the clubhouse is controversial (I love it). The scenery is above average, the only truly spectacular hole is the short downhill seventh, and in fact when I did my "all fortnight" eighteen on the flight home, there were no holes from Birkdale.
 
What you do get is an obstacle or three on every shot, forcing you to pick a line and be on your toes. The opening hole is a 420-yard dogleg left with a 20 MPH left-to-right crosswind, with a giant mound/bunker on the corner at 215 yards. Good luck! The notion of trying to hit over, next to, around, or very far away from a feature is repeated over and over and over. On every hole on every shot there are margins, calculations, and thrilling results for good execution. The 115-ish bunkers are placed absolutely perfectly and there are significant vertical impediments on many holes.
 
No two holes are remotely alike and I can remember them like the back of my hand. I yearn to return.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2024, 03:20:45 PM by Michael Moore »
Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

HarryBrinkerhoffDoyleIV_aka_Barry

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Re: Is Royal Birkdale a good course?
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2024, 05:21:02 PM »
I've always wondered about the origins of Birkdale's fairways and them being so flat.  Has this always been the case, or was work done to flatten them?  It strikes me as very odd in relation to Birkdale's neighbors (S&A & Hillside), and the surrounding dunes which encompass Birkdale.

Tony Dear

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Re: Is Royal Birkdale a good course?
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2024, 05:57:01 PM »
Cracking course. Very stout in places, fairly straightforward in others. Some genuinely great holes, some not to special (but never bad). Wonderful clubhouse with a great snooker room. And possibly the best sausage rolls I ever had.
Tony

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Is Royal Birkdale a good course?
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2024, 04:58:04 AM »
I've always wondered about the origins of Birkdale's fairways and them being so flat.  Has this always been the case, or was work done to flatten them?  It strikes me as very odd in relation to Birkdale's neighbors (S&A & Hillside), and the surrounding dunes which encompass Birkdale.


Hillside has the flattest fairways on the planet, the so called great back nine fairways are like motorways between the dunes. You could play pool on them.


Michael Whitaker the par 3 14th has gone and a new hole built i believe between the old 15th and 16th.
Cave Nil Vino

Mark Pearce

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Re: Is Royal Birkdale a good course?
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2024, 06:06:35 AM »
It's a very good course.  On better land.


I'd rather play Lytham or Hoylake.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Is Royal Birkdale a good course?
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2024, 08:03:14 AM »
It’s very easy to see why Birkdale is popular among the pros: great optics, no funny stances, very little randomness. But those precise things mean it is always going to split opinions among recreational golfers. Lots of us love links golf precisely because it tends to have randomness. And those people will respect Birkdale rather than love it.

The issue I have always had with Birkdale is that the dunes are wasted, because the course plays religiously through the valleys between them. But then, the dunes are so large, what other choice was available? Birkdale, therefore, is Exhibit A in the debate over whether huge dunes make for the best courses.

It’s interesting that it is Americans on this thread who haven’t liked the clubhouse. Art Deco in the UK is very closely associated with the seaside and therefore the clubhouse design is, imo, entirely appropriate. I recall we once had a similar discussion re Castle Stuart (as it then was).
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Ben Stephens

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Re: Is Royal Birkdale a good course?
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2024, 10:49:19 AM »
I would say the layout originally designed in 1930s makes Birkdale the most modern of all the Open Championship course layouts and the clubhouse is a great design looks like it resembles a ocean liner from the halcyon days of art deco. It is unique and I like it because it is different and quite elegant inside as well with the amazing view of the 18th green through the large curved window.


The holes do go in several different directions which is unlike many links courses and there are subtle contours on the fairways which makes it more playable and player friendly than most other links courses.



The previous layout at Birkdale in the early 20th century was shorter and it had interesting square greens I am not sure if the original layout/holes actually went over the dunes. in the 1930s Hawtree and Taylor redesigned the course their design philosophy was to put the holes through the dunes not over them which is mentioned in the history section of the clubs website. The clubhouse was built at a similar time.


I would have Birkdale ahead of Lytham and Hoylake as it's a better championship golf course and easily one of the best courses in the Open for spectators hands down that it requires less stands than normal from experience. 


Sad to see the 14th taken out and replaced by a new par 3 16th one of the reasons was to change the direction of one par 3 as there were a number of them in similar direction - don't mention a new links course in the north west of Ireland!!


The game of golf is evolving and Birkdale is evolving more than the others whether it is for the better or worse. The same goes for Turnberry Ailsa.

Keith Phillips

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Re: Is Royal Birkdale a good course?
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2024, 10:53:37 AM »
Played Birkdale on a father-son trip.  I liked it but it ranked #3 of the big 3, i.e., behind Hoylake (played 2x and played well so may be biased) and Lytham (loved the bunkering!)  We also played Formby, Wallasey, Silloth, etc. and I found each of those as enjoyable as the big names.

Bruce Katona

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Re: Is Royal Birkdale a good course?
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2024, 01:21:07 PM »
Great sausage rolls & snooker room.....very UK


a comment much akin to my friend Archie Struthers & I debating the merits of the taylor ham/pork roll, egg & cheese breakfast sandwiche at a chubbhouse here in The Great Garden State.

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