News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Cabot St Lucia Course Tour
« on: February 23, 2024, 07:22:00 PM »
In January I vacationed in St Lucia at a resort on the island that was very close to the course, and I had the opportunity to play the Cabot St Lucia course (aka Point Hardy) four times.  The course is breathtakingly spectacular with nine holes along the ocean, including four of the five par 3s.  I haven’t been to Kapalua but to me that seems like the closest comparable as there are lots of elevation changes on the course, and several downhill tees shots. This is one of the most scenic courses in the world – in my experience it ranks up there with Pebble, Cabot Cliffs and the now defunct Nirwana Bali.

The course has wide fairways but is very penal if you miss the fairway as shots that find the native long grass are irretrievably lost. The course rating/slope of 71/132 from the Green (6245 yard) tees is, IMO, ridiculously low.  The strong winds during my visit made that worse, but if you ever happen to miss a fairway then you are likely hitting three off the tee. The course is not very walkable given elevation changes and long paths to get to some tee boxes in a hot tropical climate.  Players are currently using carts along with a caddy.  The course plays shorter that the scorecard distance as more holes play downhill than uphill o only the first and tenth holes are uphill.  That is accomplished by having an uphill journey from green to the next tee – this is especially the case from the 10th green to the 11th tee.

I didn’t take enough pictures, but for more on the course check out this hole-by-hole tour narrated by Bill Coore, and this video blog of the last four holes).  There is also this video blog by Frederik and Hannah that shows the last five holes.

About St Lucia:  The island is quite beautiful and appears to be marketing itself to high end tourists. But some of the infrastructure is currently lacking.  The airport is horrible and the customs lineup upon arrival took about 45 minutes, which wasn’t pleasant.  (Apparently a new airport terminal is under construction, but construction was ‘paused’ during Covid.)  Getting to the north end of the island isn’t easy.  I took a helicopter to a helipad at the island’s smaller aiport, but it was still a bit of a drive that took about an hour in heavy Friday afternoon traffic. The trip back took only 20 minutes on a Sunday.  Driving from the international airport, which is at the southern tip of the island, to Cabot St Lucia is about a two-hour adventure on twisting roads.  The roads in the last mile or two to the resort are particularly bad. Apparently, Cabot will be paying to have them repaved after the heavy construction is done.

About the resort:  The resort is a (or will be) private course that will be surrounded by villas. I don’t believe that there are plans to build a hotel at the resort.  Currently the first batch of villas are under early-stage construction – the foundations have been started on a few.  There are no villas currently on the course, but there are some pre-existing homes that are back a bit from the course.  There are tennis courts and pickleball courts at the site.  The pro shop is currently being operated out of a shipping container and there is not yet a clubhouse at the site.  There is a covered area near the first and ninth tees where you can have a few drinks, or snacks.

First Hole The first hole is an uphill 463-yard par 5 that takes the player from the oceanside up towards higher ground where the first green is situated.  C&C cut a barranca through the fairway that runs along the left and then cuts through at an angle from left to right – a good drive may get somewhat close to this hazard.  There is also a fairway bunker on the right side of the fairway.  Very long hitters might make the green in two, but the second shot is very uphill, and the green is well guarded by a deep front bunker. On my first round I pulled my tee shot left and it bounced through the barranca into the long grass providing me with my first encounter with the native grass.  This grass is very soft and wispy and completely hides golf balls. Hopefully they find a way to thin out this graph or cut it down to make it more manageable.  Most second shots will be well short of the green and will leave an uphill shot that is semi-blind.  The green has a hill behind that acts as a backboard and there are two bunkers about 7 yards beyond the green.   This hole is an ok opening hole, but it is overshadowed by the holes to come, very similar to its Canadian cousins in Cape Breton that have solid, if unspectacular opening par 5s.  But it works well to get you up the hill.
I am not sure what type of grass was used on the greens, but the greens are in quite good shape and are a reasonable speed.  I played Cabot Cliffs when it first opened, and its greens were very slow for the first year or two of its existence – that is not the case here.

Second Hole The second hole is a 450-yard par 4 where the ideal drive is over the left hand bunkers, especially if the wind is howling off the ocean as it was during my visit.  The fairway is quite generous, but a sliced drive, aided by the wind, could find a fairway bunker on the right or be in the adjacent third fairway.  The right side is not where you want to be as the green is protected from that angle by the unique green site which is very interesting and apparently was a small quarry in the past.  The green is sort of in a dell, especially the back right of the green site.  This is a fun hole.Second green site

Third Hole The third hole is a very reachable 460-yard par 5. The ideal drive on this hole is over the right-side fairway bunker towards a berm in the distance.  The drive is downhill, and the fairway kicks the ball to the left hand side of this fairway where a good drive will allow the golfer to reach the green in two.  There is a deep bunker cut into the front centre of the green and another bunker on the back right.  This is a fun hole to play.

Fourth Hole The fourth is the first par 3 and the only par 3 of the five on the course that does not bring the ocean into play.  The tee shot is listed at 195 yards but plays about 155 as it is downhill to a green that has some Redan characteristics as the green falls from front right to back left.  There are two very large bunkers in the front of the green and a large bunker behind the green.  Beside the fourth hole is the first of two “comfort stations” at Cabot.  These are very well done and well stocked with drinks and snacks, and are air conditioned which provides a nice respite from the heat.

Fifth Hole The fifth hole begins a journey back down to the ocean and there is a spectacular view from the tee of a downhill par 4 that plays much shorter than its 388 yards.  The aiming spot is a centre line bunker but most drives will take the slope and miss the bunker, going down to the right.  If the drive is too far right it may find the barranca that runs down the right side and then cuts across the fairway about 70 yards short of the green.  The green is tucked into a hillside on the right and there is a very large bunker and fall off on the left of the green.
5th hole from the tee

Sixth Hole The tee for the sixth hole is just beyond the fifth green. It is a short hole that plays about 330 yards and has a downhill tee shot, just like the previous hole.  There are a series of fairway bunkers on the left that could catch the drives of long hitters, but the slope of the land tends to push the ball to the right, although there are a number of mounds in the fairway.  The approach shot is to an elevated infinity green with two tiers.  On the days that I was playing the wind was very strong and had a large effect on this approach shot.  This was one of my favourite par 4s on the course.6th hole view from the tee6th green approach

Seventh Hole The seventh hole at 115 yards is the shortest par 3 on the course and it plays to a narrow peninsula that has the 7th green and 8th tee. This hole is reminiscent of the seventh at Pebble or the fourteenth at Cabot Links although it is a bit longer.  The problem here is the wind as you are playing to a very exposed green.  During all of my rounds the hole played into a wind that was partially a left to right cross wind.  A PW hit high in the air is in danger of getting swallowed by the wind and blown into a bunker or the ocean to the right of the green.


Eighth Hole The eighth hole has the first heroic carry of the round that gets your heart beating as you hit your tee shot over an ocean cove of this short 305 yard hole.  The tee shot is not as hard as it appears and in my first couple of rounds, I was too cautious and aimed too far to the right.  The wind was coming off the ocean and aiding the tee shot so it helps to keep your drive on terra firma.  Long hitters may be able to drive the green or come close.  The approach shot is uphill and will likely be quite short although shots from the left of the fairway will have to contend with two deep bunkers that guard the green to the left. 
8th hole looking back from green to the tee with the 6th green on the left and 7th green in the distance


Ninth Hole The ninth hole is the third par 3 on the front nine and is another gorgeous tee shot from an elevated tee down to the green just in front of the ocean.  The winds were hurting and from left to right as this hole plays in a similar direction to the seventh. Given the winds the right bunker was a very popular collection spot. The green is very large and generous which is needed given the winds, although you do not get that luxury at the seventh.9th hole from Coore video
To be continued...

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot St Lucia Course Tour
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2024, 09:12:44 PM »
This is timely. My wife and I are going in May. I plan to drive but will probably take a water taxi from Soufriere where we are staying. Can't wait.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot St Lucia Course Tour
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2024, 09:45:19 PM »
Soufriere is a long way from the Cabot property - I stayed near there on a previous visit to St Lucia in 2019.

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot St Lucia Course Tour
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2024, 09:55:35 PM »
I forgot to post this in the initial post.  Here is the dreaded rough:
Good luck finding your ball.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot St Lucia Course Tour
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2024, 10:06:51 PM »
Soufriere is a long way from the Cabot property - I stayed near there on a previous visit to St Lucia in 2019.


I saw that. I thought about changing hotels for the night but the very helpful lady at the club said a water taxi is the way to go. Hope the water is calm that day.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot St Lucia Course Tour
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2024, 02:05:46 AM »
Wayne this is wonderful, thanks for taking the time to make it so helpful.  I'm surprised to see what looks like gorse bushes on 5/6. Almost like RCD stuff.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Paul Elam

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot St Lucia Course Tour
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2024, 09:58:52 AM »
I'd agree with Wayne's thoughts on both the rough and slope rating.

The slope rating seems low given how many balls you can lose on the par 3's by the water and in the rough. High/mid handicappers could take 7s or 8s on those holes in the blink of an eye.  On the other hand, better players will feast on the short par 5s like 1, 3, and 18.  And do the same on short downhill par 4s like 5, 6, and 8.

So I suppose the rough is a reasonable defense(along with wind) given the wide fairways. The real problem is the fact that the course is so new that there aren't many balls in the rough to find when you lose one!

Honestly, the scenery is so spectacular that the scorecard is almost an afterthought.  So many fun shots to hit on this golf course...
« Last Edit: February 24, 2024, 10:01:38 AM by Paul Elam »

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot St Lucia Course Tour
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2024, 11:22:11 AM »
Wayne this is wonderful, thanks for taking the time to make it so helpful.  I'm surprised to see what looks like gorse bushes on 5/6. Almost like RCD stuff.
Yes, from the photos they look like gorse, but they are some other tropical bush.  There is obviously a lot of organ pipe cactus as well, especially around the ninth hole.

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot St Lucia Course Tour
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2024, 02:18:43 PM »
The back nine:
Tenth Hole
The course returns to the start after nine and the tenth hole is near the first tee.  Holes 10-13 are probably the weakest holes on the course, or at least much less spectacular than the rest of the course.  The current tenth hole is a steep, straight 325-yard climb up a hill.  It appears that C&C had to cut terraces into the fairway to stop the ball from rolling back too far.  So, a new hole is being constructed, which will be a dogleg left and the new green will be at a lower elevation to the current green.  That can he seen in the photo as the bare dirt in the left of the photo.  The current hole has a large fairway bunker on the right of the fairway that collects a lot of balls.  If you avoid the bunker then you will have a relatively short but blind shot up the hill that will play much longer than the yardage due to the uphill nature of the shot.  It will also be partially or fully blind.  On the Coore video Bill says, “perhaps the most controversial hole due to its upward elevation, the tenth, from a golf architecture perspective, is one of my person favourites given the artistic and playable manner in which it connects the lower and upper portions of the course.”  It will be interesting to see if they keep this green and change the green from day-to-day, like the par 3 fourth hole at Cabot Cliffs.

 
The new fairway and green will be where the dirt is on the left of this photo.

Eleventh Hole
After an uphill journey, which will become more uphill and longer after the new tenth hole is finished, the eleventh gives a reward with a downhill tee shot on this 495-yard par 5.  Drives should favour the right side of the fairway as the contour of the land will kick drives to the left.  The left side of the fairway also has a large hill that will leave your next shot more blind.  This hole is very reachable, and the green is set in a lower area so that approach shot plays shorter than the distance as balls will run onto the green, so this hole is very reachable in two.



Twelfth Hole
The twelfth hole is a 454-yard par 4 that also plays downhill.  As on the eleventh hole, the fairway cants to the left and drives will have to be careful not to bound into the bushes left of the fairway.  The right side of the fairway will also provide an easier shot into the green as there is a long narrow bunker that guards the approach from the left of the green.  Behind the green are the tennis and pickleball courts.




Thirteenth Hole
The thirteenth hole is a 450-yard par 4 that contains man made water hazards in the form of two ponds, including one on the right side of the green.  These ponds were in existence before the course was constructed. This hole will typically call for a long approach where a fade is the ideal shot from a right-handed golfer as there is a bunker guarding the right side of the green.  A shot that is long and left here is in danger of ending up in the long native grasses.  But too far right and you will find the water hazard which is close to the right edge of the green. To me this hole has a bit of different feel than most of the other holes on the course as there is little elevation change and the ponds make if fell more like a typical parkland course.  After this green you come to the second of two comfort stations on the course to refresh you for what is to come.



Fourteenth Hole
The fourteenth hole begins the journey back to the sea.  The final five holes are one of the most spectacular stretches of golf, like Cypress (I assume since I haven’t been there) or the closing holes at Cabot Cliffs. See the YouTube video (linked to above at the top of the first post) by Frederik and Hannah to see this stretch of holes in more detail.  This hole shares similar characteristics to the fifteenth hole at Cabot Cliffs.  The tee shot on this 590-yard par 5 is into, or over, a hill which has a saddle shape cut into the fairway.  Long drives should reach the top of the hill.  After you crest the hill the gorgeous scene of the green and the ocean comes into view, like 15 at Cabot Cliffs.  From this point until the end of the round, the views are truly spectacular and if the wind is strong, as it was during my four rounds, then the holes become very challenging.  The fairway narrows as you get closer to the green and two bunkers guard the right edge of the fairway about 100 yards short of the green.  Left of the fairway is small strip of rough before a dense pocket of bushes.  This is a true three shot par 5.  The green is an infinity green if you are farther back in the fairway.  There are a series of bunkers off the right of the green, and there is that freakin’ rough on the left side of the green.  As you walk off the green you get a glimpse of the fifteenth tee…

The view as you crest the hill on the 14th fairway.

The view as you approach the 14th green.

The 14th green and the 15th tee behind it.

Fifteenth Hole
Oh my god!  The fifteenth is a risk-reward short par 4 of about 290 yards with a tee shot over a cliff that rises up from the ocean – similar to the seventeenth at Cabot Cliffs.  The tee is on a spit of land that juts out into the ocean, kind of an island tee.  On the tee you are likely thinking, this is the most spectacular hole that I have ever played.  (That feeling will last about ten minutes until you get to the next hole.)  The conservative play is to hit a fade over a bunker on the left edge of the fairway.  An aggressive shot will be to take a more direct line to the green, aiming for the left greenside bunker, but the strong ocean winds could punish you by sending your ball into the Atlantic Ocean.  The green is quite large and with a good drive there should be birdie opportunities.  From the green look back to the tee – it is a spectacular view and a unique place for a tee.

15th hole from the tee

15 looking from the green back towards the tee



Sixteenth Hole
The sixteenth tee is just beyond the previous green and as you get to the tee you think, ok, this tops the previous hole in terms of a spectacular and dramatic shot.  This 145-yard par 3 is all carry over the ocean – think 15&16 at Cypress, or 16 at Cabot Cliffs.  But the hole is extremely exposed to the wind, which, while I was playing, was a 3-4 club wind, On one round I managed to hit a great shot to three feet with a hybrid that I normally hit 190.  I tried that same club on a subsequent round and airmailed the green and took a big number.  This green is fronted by five bunkers cut into the cliffs rising up from the ocean.  There is another bunker beyond the green that will catch shots that are long and a bit left.  Beyond that you are dead in the gunk and long grass.

16 from the tee.

16 from the hill behind the green.  The 15th tee is visible in the distance.

Seventeenth Hole
Going to 17 you think, how can this hole top the two previous holes. But it does!  As on the two previous holes, you are hitting over the ocean, but this time you have a higher cliff face to surmount and a longer shot as this is a 170-yard par 3.  Once again, the wind makes the hole play much longer, plus there is the uphill nature of the hole to contend with.  Up to the right of the tee there is an additional small tee that couldn’t handle much play as it is tiny but is a truly spectacular point from which to hit a shot.  There is a hill to the left of the green so a less aggressive route on this hole is to aim left and use the contour of the hill to direct your ball back to the green.  Going long is not an option as the green falls off into the ocean.  The flag may not be visible from the tee as it could be obscured by the hill.  What a stretch of holes!

17 from the regular tee.

17 from the tiny tee atop the hill.

Eighteenth Hole
The tee shot on this 485-yard is somewhat less dramatic as you are not hitting over the ocean, so your sphincter can relax a bit.  The view here is only 9.5 out of 10 as the ocean is partially obscured by vegetation on the right-hand side.  Hitting a fade off of the (current) pro shop is the ideal line as the closer you get to the cliffside on the right, the shorter your approach shot will be.  A shot too far right could end up on the small beach, and a shot from there would be possible.  The wind will make the approach to the green play longer, but most decent drives will allow you to attempt the green in two in another heroic shot over the ocean, your last chance for divinity in the round.  If you can’t go for glory then you can lay up to the left, which will still leave a treacherous shot over the ocean to the green.

18th tee view

Approach shot on 18

Closing Remarks
This course is truly spectacular and leaves you with sensory overload.  Holes 6-9 and 14-18 are all breathtaking and dramatic, but also very penal, at least in strong winds.  Apparently, the winds that I experienced in January were the strongest that they have seen since the course opened, but are not unusual for that time of the year.  Presumably the course will get the bulk of the play during winter so they will be a common experience for many golfers.
 I haven’t been to Hawaii, Casa de Campo or Mid-Ocean, but this must be one the great island courses in the world.  I would like to see if they could do something to make the rough less penal as it is an instant lost ball currently.  It will be interesting to see how it develops over time and how it is viewed vs peers like the courses mentioned above, or Kapalua Plantation. 
edit - One criticism is that the course is not very walkable - but this is as much to do with the tropical climate as it is the distance from tee to green or elevation changes.

Pro Tip
Bring lots of balls.  While I was in St Lucia, they were desperate for balls and only had Titleist AVX for sale for US$28/sleeve!  Apparently, there are large import duties for golf balls.  You won’t find many, if any, balls on the course given the nature of the rough and the fact that there haven’t been a lot of rounds played on the course.
 
« Last Edit: February 24, 2024, 04:54:06 PM by Wayne_Kozun »

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot St Lucia Course Tour
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2024, 03:14:31 PM »
It sure is beautiful...BUT I don't think I'd enjoy playing it.  #10 looks like a heart attack waiting to happen!


Thanks for posting though!
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot St Lucia Course Tour
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2024, 03:38:10 PM »
@Craig - one thing that I didn't clearly mention is that the course is not very walkable.  The tenth is very steep, so if that didn't kill you the walk up to the 11th tee might!

Matt Kardash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot St Lucia Course Tour
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2024, 07:04:25 PM »
How does it compare to Cabot Cliffs? I would imagine that is perhaps the best comparable.
The flyovers and your photos make holes 1 and 10 seem borderline, if not actual, goathill uphill holes. They look like the weak links in the routing that are there out of necessity to make the rest of the course work. Cabot Cliffs is perhaps not as overall spectacular but does not have any obvious weak links. (I prefer Cabot Links more than Cliffs myself, actually)
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Keith Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot St Lucia Course Tour
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2024, 07:33:17 PM »
the rough reminds me of the fescue/native areas at Bayonne in the year it opened.  Massively penal, automatic lost ball, but really only an issue the first year as they needed to irrigate and fertilize the fescue to get it to take root.  I hope the same will be true of the rough in St. Lucia!

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot St Lucia Course Tour
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2024, 09:24:31 PM »
How does it compare to Cabot Cliffs? I would imagine that is perhaps the best comparable.
I agree with you in that I prefer Links to Cliffs and I have played both courses several dozen times.  While 16 and 17 at Cliffs are very scenic they are a bit gimmicky, especially 17.  And #12 at Cliffs is a ridiculously hard par 3.  But 2 and 15 at Cliffs are fantastic, all-world holes.

#1 at CSL is not that bad in terms of being uphill, it works.  #10 much less so, and I guess that is why it is being redone.

IMO Cliffs is a stronger overall course, but CSL is more scenic.  But Links is the best of the three.



Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot St Lucia Course Tour
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2024, 09:25:48 PM »
the rough reminds me of the fescue/native areas at Bayonne in the year it opened.  Massively penal, automatic lost ball, but really only an issue the first year as they needed to irrigate and fertilize the fescue to get it to take root.  I hope the same will be true of the rough in St. Lucia!
I hope you are correct Keith, but I don't think they can do something similar here.  I don't think that there is any fescue planted and this native grass is endemic to the area.  Would fescue even work in the tropics?

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back