[Tommy Williamsen]

I am skiing in CO for five weeks. Yesterday, I skied Arapahoe Basin. As we stood atop of the Lenawee
face, my son said, "Dad, that is a perfect golf hole. The fairway is all laid out." "Don't you think the vertical drop is a bit much?" "Nope. The tee ball would stay in the air forever."

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So how much is too much? The 604-yard first hole at The Sanctuary drops 180 feet. Too much?
Where do you draw the line?


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[Charlie Goerges]

Honestly, I like the idea of the ski run better. That ball is going to run and run and follow the contours of the ground. In the second image, I imagine the ball two-hopping to a stop and that's it.


I'm not opposed to the big drop-shot, even when there isn't much roll, but I'd prefer to see some roll.


As to maximum height, can someone with physics knowledge tell us what's practical for not creating a bunch of embedded balls?

[Kalen Braley]

Honestly, I like the idea of the ski run better. That ball is going to run and run and follow the contours of the ground. In the second image, I imagine the ball two-hopping to a stop and that's it.

I'm not opposed to the big drop-shot, even when there isn't much roll, but I'd prefer to see some roll.

As to maximum height, can someone with physics knowledge tell us what's practical for not creating a bunch of embedded balls?

Charlie,

A quick google search says the terminal velocity for a golf ball is 72 MPH and takes approx. 10 seconds to get there.

Assuming its initially going much faster than that (at least off the club face of a good player), perhaps in this case the higher the better.    But all the math to determine the trajectory, vector, and all that stuff is long forgotten from my college days.

[Sean_A]

I will always refer to the walk as to what makes sense as the guide for ideal elevation changes.

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

When laying out a vertical drop hole how much width allowance (if any?) should be made for the effect of the wind? The longer the ball’s in the air the more wind is likely to affect it and all that?
Atb

[Tom_Doak]

When laying out a vertical drop hole how much width allowance (if any?) should be made for the effect of the wind? The longer the ball’s in the air the more wind is likely to affect it and all that?

The simple physics are that the ball travels forward in a parabola and that extending a parabola down below the starting line doesn’t result in much increase in distance, because the ball is falling steeply already.  But every second the ball is in the air, it continues to hook or slice, so a steeply downhill shot needs to provide substantially more room to accommodate a bad shot.


I haven’t done the math but my observations are that a 60-yard target would need to be 10-15% wider for every extra second the ball is in the air, so, maybe 30-40 yards wider on the most extreme tee shots.

[Tommy Williamsen]

You guys are too smart for me. All I know is the ball continues to move one way or another. The second hole at Musgrove Mill is a 125-yard downhill shot. I always aim to the right side of the green because my ball normally moves left, and the extra downhill slope makes it move more. On the first hole at The Sanctuary, I aimed into the right woods.

[Keith Phillips]

Tommy, you're focused on the wrong thing - with snow and blue skies like that, enjoy the six weeks on your skis!

[MClutterbuck]

Tommy,


A large drop is a huge design problem. We are in grow in on the 18th hole at El Desafio. 600 yards, 80 meter (262 feet) drop.


While there is a considerable vertical drop from tee to the fairway down below, it continues to slope downwards quite severely all the way to the green. When the design team proposed the routing, several years ago now, I always considered this would be the worst hole of the golf course.


We have had years to analyze and adjust and slowly work on a final shaping and I am now very happy with the result. It is a double dogleg par 5. The safe drive will be left of center and be careful not to go too far into a "barranca". The right side will be protected by a bunker, leaving just a thin sliver of fairway for anyone trying to hit it 350+.


The safe second shot is to the right of center, leaving a short wedge to the green. The skyline green will be tough to hold from 200+ yards for those trying to make it in 2, I guess. 


To answer your question, I think 80 meters (262 feet) is probably too much. I would have been more comfortable with 25% less drop, but we will know more once it opens for play.


The flip side, the hole will be fun and has incredible views. I will post a few photos later.

[MClutterbuck]

GROW-IN PHOTOS (Seeded January 2024 with fine fescues)

From middle tees, the green is partially hidden, way down to the right. You can see the practice green in front of the club house to the left:



From the fringe, back tees are left of the center pine trees in the background, and the large skyline flat area is the 17th green.



The green:

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