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Thomas Dai

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When using yee olde era equipment course conditioning becomes less important?

Thoughts?
Atb

Matt_Cohn

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I don't know that I have an opinion, but why would it be less important?

Ben Hollerbach

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It would make sense that equipment is designed and built to be played in the conditions most prevalent at the time of creation. And over time golf course conditioning has become better and better.

So older equipment is more adapt at what would today be considered poorer conditions.

But this can also work in reverse. Hickory irons typically have very little bounce and very narrow soles. This design choice was fitting for the firm and sparse non-irrigated fairways common 100 years ago, but when translated to today softer and more lush fairways can lead to some issues with contact consistency.

Brian Finn

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For me, when using yee olde era equipment (hickory shafted clubs, in my case), course conditions become MORE important, in one specific way.  It needs to be relatively firm turf for me to enjoy playing hickories, because I rely so heavily on lower, running shots.  While I always prefer firmer conditions, with modern clubs I can handle wet and soggy far better.  Hickory, not so much. 
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Matt Schoolfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
It would make sense that equipment is designed and built to be played in the conditions most prevalent at the time of creation. And over time golf course conditioning has become better and better.

So older equipment is more adapt at what would today be considered poorer conditions.

But this can also work in reverse. Hickory irons typically have very little bounce and very narrow soles. This design choice was fitting for the firm and sparse non-irrigated fairways common 100 years ago, but when translated to today softer and more lush fairways can lead to some issues with contact consistency.
I think this is the right way to look at it. The equipment is designed for the conditions, not the other way around. One place I see this is putters. I know some folks who only play hickories when not at their home club. When I've played with them the only club that I raise an eyebrow about is their putters, which, while the shafts look the part, they seem designed for 1950s-era greens at the earliest.

When researching the MacKenzie story about the 16th at Cypress Point, I became pretty obsessed with the loft on Bobby Jones' putter. The first time I put two-and-two together that high-lofted putters made more sense is when I watched the film with the No Laying Up guys and Jim Hartsell playing at Iona GC, where, with the old-school greens, modern putters are completely the wrong tool, and you can immediately see that a gently hopping shot would much more effective than trying to roll it through the grass, even if there is a bit of backspin to contend with.

The only other thing I would say is that the question has a normative framing built into it that I would reject. "Course conditioning" is framed as modern course conditioning ideals, when "course conditioning" should be framed as the actual condition of the course. Ye olde-style putters are more useful on ye olde-style greens, but not on modern expectations of greens, and vice versa.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2024, 07:35:42 PM by Matt Schoolfield »
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Jeff Schley

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Does this count?
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Does this count?
The best mowers. The height they nibble is the perfect fairway height plus they nibble in erratic patterns and on various degrees of slopes, humps and hollows.
As to the topic, may I suggest that when the club in your hand is of a yee olde era, either hickory or generally retro, and it has a slippery grip, a shaft that mightn’t be straight that’s attached to a thin bladed head by ancient glue and possibly a rusty pin hitting the ball squarely likely becomes the hardest part of the game, hence conditioning may not be so important.
Atb

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
As to the topic, may I suggest that when the club in your hand is of a yee olde era, either hickory or generally retro, and it has a slippery grip, a shaft that mightn’t be straight that’s attached to a thin bladed head by ancient glue and possibly a rusty pin hitting the ball squarely likely becomes the hardest part of the game, hence conditioning may not be so important.
Atb


While it's true that playing with 100-year-old clubs will give you slippery grips, crooked shafts, ancient glue and rusty pins, I can assure you that those things weren't the case when the clubs were built.


I have a few dozen of those clubs that I accumulated from eBay while I was putting together a set to play with and in the process of "restoring" them to playability I was astonished to find that several of the hard, black grips had originally been red, BRIGHT red.


I also think it's possible that many of the old clubs that have survived did so because they weren't particularly playable when they were new.  My theory is that the "good" ones got used, and used hard, and didn't survive.


Many of the clubs I have are SO light that I cannot imagine someone swinging them with the rhythm you see in Jones' swing, or any of the others there are films of.
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

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