Te Arai (North)

[Tim_Weiman]

I have 6 favorites, in alpha order: Ballyneal, Barnbougle Dunes, Lido, Pacific Dunes, St. Pat's, Tara Iti

Reposting Paul's favorites in legible font size

Hate to quote my self but returned from my recent venture back to NZ and Australia.  MUST add TA-N to the above six.  Greens are too varied and great to even begin to describe.  And they are a showcase for slow (stimping say 7.5-8') greens with dramatic mounding/sloping. 


But as great as TA-N is, the combination of TI, TA-S, and TA-N all within a few miles of each other (as the crow flies)  is literally overwhelming to the senses.  Three brilliant but very different courses.  Thank you to Rick and Jim for this venture and to Tom and Bill for these designs.  Amazing combinations...and simply wonderful people running and operating both TA and TI.

Paul,


Good to hear from you. TA-N is now first on my bucket list. Really like the looks of it from pictures and the one video I’ve seen.


Very happy to hear your comment “showcase for slow”. That is just not done enough these days, IMO.


Look forward to your visit to Aiken next month.


Regards,


Tim

[Kevin Pallier]

Hate to quote my self but returned from my recent venture back to NZ and Australia.  MUST add TA-N to the above six.  Greens are too varied and great to even begin to describe.  And they are a showcase for slow (stimping say 7.5-8') greens with dramatic mounding/sloping. 


But as great as TA-N is, the combination of TI, TA-S, and TA-N all within a few miles of each other (as the crow flies)  is literally overwhelming to the senses.  Three brilliant but very different courses.  Thank you to Rick and Jim for this venture and to Tom and Bill for these designs.  Amazing combinations...and simply wonderful people running and operating both TA and TI.

Paul


Now that you've had a bit of time to reflect on the courses on your recent trip how would you rate the 3 at Tara Iti / Te Arai?

[Tom_Doak]

Hate to quote my self but returned from my recent venture back to NZ and Australia.  MUST add TA-N to the above six.  Greens are too varied and great to even begin to describe.  And they are a showcase for slow (stimping say 7.5-8') greens with dramatic mounding/sloping. 

They are really not intended to be a "showcase for slow," they are just one-year-old fescue greens and if you try to get more speed out of them at that age you might kill them.  It takes a couple of years of maturity before you can get any speed, and several years before you can get them like Tara Iti is today.


Rest assured, though, they will all eventually be around the same speed, so you can go back and forth between the courses without having to make adjustments.


When they get that fast, some of the hole locations at Te Arai North will no longer be used much because they'll be "too unfair", but they will still have enough places to cut holes, I hope.  My 7th green might be a struggle if they get TOO fast.

[jeffwarne]

Hate to quote my self but returned from my recent venture back to NZ and Australia.  MUST add TA-N to the above six.  Greens are too varied and great to even begin to describe.  And they are a showcase for slow (stimping say 7.5-8') greens with dramatic mounding/sloping. 

Rest assured, though, they will all eventually be around the same speed, so you can go back and forth between the courses without having to make adjustments.


When they get that fast, some of the hole locations at Te Arai North will no longer be used much because they'll be "too unfair", but they will still have enough places to cut holes, I hope.  My 7th green might be a struggle if they get TOO fast.

Heavy sigh.
Hopefully there is some tongue in cheek there.
Aren't "adjustments" part of the game?
And if the loss of pin placements and potentially an entire green, are the side effect, more's the pity.


I've hesitated to post specifics about my recent trip to NZ, allowing it all to sink in.
It was very cool to return to the incomparable Tara Iti and see the incredible site and work that is Te Arai North and South, as well as the wondrous Cape Kidnappers.(far less severe than pictures might indicate)
25 courses in 18 days-just an amazing trip(reminded me of the UK 30 years ago-with perfect weather) There are maybe 2-3 courses I probably wouldn't return to and maybe only 1-2? I wouldn't recommend.
Amazing variety and I really have a hard time saying what was "better" with such a wide range of experiences.

[Paul Rudovsky]

I've hesitated to post specifics about my recent trip to NZ, allowing it all to sink in.
It was very cool to return to the incomparable Tara Iti and see the incredible site and work that is Te Arai North and South, as well as the wondrous Cape Kidnappers.(far less severe than pictures might indicate)
25 courses in 18 days-just an amazing trip(reminded me of the UK 30 years ago-with perfect weather) There are maybe 2-3 courses I probably wouldn't return to and maybe only 1-2? I wouldn't recommend.
Amazing variety and I really have a hard time saying what was "better" with such a wide range of experiences.


Jeff--

your last line above says it perfectly.  Amazing how universal the reaction is to the three courses at TI/TA...almost all say they are each fabulous and so very different from one another, that few are willing to stay to compare them to each other.  Perhaps that is because they all are less than 8-9 years old so it is too early to sort them out???  Wonder want a typical reaction might be to someone playing Shinnie, NGLA, and Maidstone, all for the first time with no history of hearing about them or reading about them.  Would the typical reaction be similar?

Interesting question.  In any case this is really a very unique spot in the golfing world

[Tom_Doak]

Jeff:


I wish I was being tongue in cheek about green speeds, but I wasn't.


You can get away with slower green speeds if that's the standard in a given location.  It works fine in the UK, because the "better" clubs are not running their greens at 12.  It works fine in Bandon, because you go there for 3-4 days and play a bunch of greens that are 9.5 or 10, and you probably didn't play on 12 the day before, and you adjust.


Slower speeds failed miserably at Spanish Bay when they tried fescue greens.  People would come over from Pebble Beach and leave their putts short all day and be pissed off and loudly ask why the greens couldn't be the same as Pebble.  We had the same problem at High Pointe the first time around, with Grand Traverse Resort just down the road, pumping up their green speeds to make their resort course "challenging". 


Te Arai is a little more like Bandon; New Zealanders aren't used to super fast greens to begin with.  But if they are going to keep the speeds up at Tara Iti, they're going to have to keep them pretty much the same down the beach, or the Tara Iti members will never get a putt to the hole.


This, incidentally, is why I speak out against everyday fast greens at every opportunity, even for courses I don't belong to and have no interest in playing.  The more that rich clubs normalize the standard of fast greens, the more other clubs will be dragged down to that level, even if it makes no sense for them, agronomically or economically or playability-wise.  Just as with everything else in life these days, we are all at the mercy of the loudest guy in the room.

[Tim_Weiman]

Jeff:


I wish I was being tongue in cheek about green speeds, but I wasn't.


You can get away with slower green speeds if that's the standard in a given location.  It works fine in the UK, because the "better" clubs are not running their greens at 12.  It works fine in Bandon, because you go there for 3-4 days and play a bunch of greens that are 9.5 or 10, and you probably didn't play on 12 the day before, and you adjust.


Slower speeds failed miserably at Spanish Bay when they tried fescue greens.  People would come over from Pebble Beach and leave their putts short all day and be pissed off and loudly ask why the greens couldn't be the same as Pebble.  We had the same problem at High Pointe the first time around, with Grand Traverse Resort just down the road, pumping up their green speeds to make their resort course "challenging". 


Te Arai is a little more like Bandon; New Zealanders aren't used to super fast greens to begin with.  But if they are going to keep the speeds up at Tara Iti, they're going to have to keep them pretty much the same down the beach, or the Tara Iti members will never get a putt to the hole.


This, incidentally, is why I speak out against everyday fast greens at every opportunity, even for courses I don't belong to and have no interest in playing.  The more that rich clubs normalize the standard of fast greens, the more other clubs will be dragged down to that level, even if it makes no sense for them, agronomically or economically or playability-wise.  Just as with everything else in life these days, we are all at the mercy of the loudest guy in the room.

Tom,


I walked Old Barnwell yesterday with the visiting golf team from Seton Hall that includes Angus O’Brien from Melbourne who is a member at both Kingston Heath and Te Aria.


Not bad for a kid in college! But, Angus came across as a really good kid, as did all the guys from Seton Hall.


Angus spoke very highly of Te Aria North. He loves it.


Tim