News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.

Pages: 1 [2]

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Macdonald being Renovated by Nicklaus Design
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2019, 10:12:51 AM »
Did Nicklaus actually do any work there?


Weekday escapes including golf are available at Oheka:


https://www.elitetraveler.com/travel/travel-news/oheka-golf-packages-for-a-weekday-escape
Logged
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Bret Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Macdonald being Renovated by Nicklaus Design
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2019, 10:36:01 AM »
Colin,


I have never seen names associated with the holes at Oheka.  If you ever find them, I'd be interested to hear what they are. Here is a September 1917 layout of Oheka from the Olmsted Archives, click the image twice to zoom in.


https://flic.kr/p/EtEKJY


Bret
Logged

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Macdonald being Renovated by Nicklaus Design
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2019, 10:38:09 AM »
 Like Brad, I've been to several functions at Oheka, staying over once. Unlike Brad, I've played the course twice.


 It is not a CBM-design that is worth saving. Very few, if any, Macdonald features remain and it hardly serves as even a worthy amenity for the expected residential development.


 If I was developing it as a residential community, I'm not sure I'd pick JN (probably not), but I certainly understand why a developer might think of them as a safe pick.


 We here love our golf course architecture and always want to protect the Golden-Age (and before) geniuses we so admire, but ultimately some courses are better off not wasting too much time bemoaning their disappearance. This is one of them.
Logged
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

corey miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Macdonald being Renovated by Nicklaus Design
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2019, 05:50:45 PM »



Looks like the deal with JN is off the table anyway.... Club sells 13.25 acres and Oheka fends for itself.


https://www.newsday.com/business/cold-spring-country-club-oheka-1.16230868
Logged

Ben Malach

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Macdonald being Renovated by Nicklaus Design
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2019, 07:42:12 PM »
it sounds like a perfect place to use reference rather than renovation. This is something that I wish was championed more here and other places. As it enables bland examples of to be turned into interesting interpretation of the OG architects intents. I think this remixing style will become more and more popular as we turn the corner on the amount of new builds vs rebuilds.
Logged
@benmalach on Instagram and Twitter

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Macdonald being Renovated by Nicklaus Design
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2019, 11:34:53 PM »
I've always like Cold Spring-I play in a charity Pro-Am there every year.
The Raynor was sucked out of by the architect du jour of the era-only fitting Nicklaus would have been the next choice (he had plans to reverse the routing-as we say-no money in doing less)


I've enjoyed my time there and if it was in Atlanta,Houston or Washington-they'd be playing majors on it :) ;D ::)
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 12:52:56 AM by jeffwarne »
Logged
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Colin Sheehan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Macdonald being Renovated by Nicklaus Design
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2019, 11:41:02 PM »
Bret,
Thanks for sharing the link. I really enjoyed it.


I am not proposing a full renovation of this course. Just that I think it was an very intriguing course back in the day.


Craig,
Thank you, as always, for posting your images.


Meanwhile, for years I have known that Bahto's drawing of the Greentree Whitney Estate course was incorrect. I think he must have found the wrong estate course. Here's another version of the course. Neither aerial pairs with his drawing. https://photos.app.goo.gl/LLTLFjgaEW5fVfdJA


Logged

Colin Sheehan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Oheka Golf Course
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2024, 12:08:49 PM »
Similar to the Greentree course, I thought I would update and share this slideshow on Otto Kahn and his Oheka Castle course.


https://photos.app.goo.gl/ykNnnJJV8JDQZYQV8


Thanks to Bret for the wonderful links.


I am curious about the 17th and 18th holes based on the original drawn plan and what appears visible in some of the pre-housing aerials. Was that 17th hole originally built as a hole playing left of the second hole--and 18 playing parallel to the gardens running north?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2024, 01:15:15 PM by Colin Sheehan »
Logged

Colin Sheehan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Macdonald being Renovated by Nicklaus Design
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2024, 12:53:24 PM »
Also, on that page for the daughter, Maud Kahn, is a round-up from 1919 that mentions Raynor is in Bermuda surveying the ground Mid Ocean. The blurb ends trolling Prohibition.

No  expense  or  care  will  be  spared  by  the Bermuda  government  in  the  completion  of a  thoroughly  modern  and  at  the  same  time picturesque  course,   and  every   facility  will be  offered   the   tourist   to  enable   him—and her—to  reach  the  island  with   the  greatest comfort.    The  Furness  Bermuda  Line  will shortly  put  in  service  two  fine  twin-screw steamers,  the Fort  Hamilton and  the  Fort Victoria, both   of   which   will   have   every modern   convenience,   and   on   which  a  fine''19th  hole"  will  figure  prominently  among other  sports,   directly  the   three   mile   limit is  passed.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2024, 03:50:55 PM by Colin Sheehan »
Logged

Colin Sheehan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Macdonald being Renovated by Nicklaus Design
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2024, 07:59:56 PM »
I disagree it shouldn't be restored to as close as possible.

With the Macdonald/Raynor fad being what it is, and what appears to be a dozen new Raynor/Macdonald every year--in fact, there should be a "Best New Raynor" award handed out each year--but this one is legit and it clearly has a fun, decretive arts and craft vibes around the bunkers and greens. It's nearly all there--originals 1 and 18 are easily reclaimable--and if that thing was brought back to as close a facsimile as back in the day, with a talented shaper being playful and avoiding the geometric cliches, I would always play it when given the chance.

And it wins points for a relatively easy course and short walk and a preserved estate course. How many can make that claim?



« Last Edit: January 04, 2024, 12:21:09 PM by Colin Sheehan »
Logged

Bret Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Oheka Golf Course
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2024, 09:27:41 AM »
Quote from: Colin Sheehan on January 03, 2024, 12:08:49 PM
Similar to the Greentree course, I thought I would update and share this slideshow on Otto Kahn and his Oheka Castle course.


https://photos.app.goo.gl/ykNnnJJV8JDQZYQV8


Thanks to Bret for the wonderful links.


I am curious about the 17th and 18th holes based on the original drawn plan and what appears visible in some of the pre-housing aerials. Was that 17th hole originally built as a hole playing left of the second hole--and 18 playing parallel to the gardens running north?


Colin,


Another great compilation of Oheka.  This is another course I have never seen the scorecard for.  The scorecard seems to indicate that the original 17th and 18th holes were gone by the time this scorecard was printed.


I agree that the 17th and 18th holes in the 1926 aerial match up with the original drawing.  As you stated, the 17th fairway appears to run parallel to the second hole. The 18th hole played north along the formal garden, starting near the 3rd and 17th greens. If you follow the original routing in the drawing, you will notice that the 15th hole from the scorecard was not included in this original drawing.  At some point the new 15th hole replaced the old 17th hole and 18 was rerouted to play from 16 green. 


The 15th green is actually visible in the 1926 aerial, but the ground leading up to the putting surface doesn’t look fully prepared as a fairway.  The original 17th and original 18th hole corridors also seem to be less maintained than some of the holes on the perimeter.  I wonder if this aerial was taken during or just after a few modifications were made to the routing?


Bret
Logged

Jaeger Kovich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Macdonald being Renovated by Nicklaus Design
« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2024, 04:40:05 PM »
I went out to see/meet with remains of Oheaka at Coldspring CC... There isn't that much left of the Raynor features after one of Pete Dye's famous old shapers got a hold of it. I'm not sure how great it was to begin with after walking around for a day, but a few fun shots remain. I heard they hired Greg Norman's design company, but not sure anything ever came from it.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]
Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back