Can someone please explain the Morikawa greens book penalty

[Michael Moore]

The reporting on this is lacking. He used a level on the practice green. Then he "used this information" on the fourth green. How? At what point did Matt Fitzratrick get involved?

[Erik J. Barzeski]

The reporting on this is lacking. He used a level on the practice green. Then he "used this information" on the fourth green. How? At what point did Matt Fitzratrick get involved?

https://golf.com/instruction/rules/pro-collin-morikawa-gaffe-penalty/

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/articles/2021/12/model-local-rule-further-limit-use-green-reading-materials-usga.html

[Michael Moore]

These handy links do not explain how Morikawa used information from the practice green to read a putt on the fourth green. Do you know the answer?

[David Cronan]

These handy links do not explain how Morikawa used information from the practice green to read a putt on the fourth green. Do you know the answer?

I believe that Morikawa and his caddie took a level to measure the slope of a particular part of the practice putting green. They took that information and made notes in his yardage book for a hole (#4)  that closely resembled that slope they measured. By doing so, I guess that afford them a better understanding of how much/less firmer he needed to hit the putt.




I used to think that being a tour pro would be a pretty cool way to earn a living, but now in this day and age it seems like waaaaaaaaaaay too much work... LOL

[Ed Brzezowski]

These handy links do not explain how Morikawa used information from the practice green to read a putt on the fourth green. Do you know the answer?

he used the level on a event hole, the fourth to be exact. not a practice green.

[Kalen Braley]

Micheal, this quote seems to explain it.

“He confirmed that he had a putting system, which is very common out here on Tour, within his yardage book, as a hand-written note,” Cox said on the broadcast. “But unfortunately — and that in itself is not a breach of the rules. Unfortunately, how he went about formulating that putting system and that chart, he unfortunately used a device to obtain on the practice putting green the levels of slope. And using a device, again, is not necessarily a breach in itself, but when you transfer that as a hand-written note into your yardage book and subsequently use that for greens reading, that’s when the breach occurred."

I wonder how much it would have actually helped him, but it seems like if had just kept that info in his head instead of writing it down, he would have been fine.

"... used a level “to obtain on the practice putting green the levels of slope.” That was OK actually. And had he kept those numbers just in his head, that even would have been OK."

[Rob Marshall]

These handy links do not explain how Morikawa used information from the practice green to read a putt on the fourth green. Do you know the answer?

he used the level on a event hole, the fourth to be exact. not a practice green.

This article says practice green


https://www.golfwrx.com/728340/collin-morikawa-hits-out-at-referee-over-penalty-after-playing-partner-reported-incident-to-rules-official/?utm_source=Front&utm_medium=Featured_Latest&utm_campaign=GolfWRX_OnSite&utm_content=unused

[Bruce Katona]

In an end-of-year (though sanctioned) event, hit and giggle.  And turned in not by himself, but another player.


Almost as good as the Head of Security for the Philadelphia Eagles American Football team getting into an on-the field fight with suited up player from the San Francisco 49'ers yesterday. For those of you on the easy side of the Atlantic, imagine one of the head stewards, in the yellow jacket, getting into an on-the pitch dust up at The Emirates, Old Trafford or Wembley, with a player playing on the pitch in an away kit. 

[Charlie Goerges]

The article is a little confusing, but John VDB explained it before. I believe nothing from a measuring device can be put into your yardage book (at least as regards green contours). I also believe there are further restrictions to the amount and type of information that can be put in, but I've forgotten. Hopefully John can chime in here.


That said, I'm curious just how much useful information he'd get from a level. Maybe they meant inclinometer? (those often look sort of like a fancy level)

[Kalen Braley]

Charlie,

As I understand it.

If you use any parts of your body to get the info (feet, eyes, legs, etc) or have a chat with someone else, you can do what you like with said info, up to and including writing it down in the notes you take on the course.

However if you use a device to gain that info, you can still use that info during the round just as long as you don't write it down on anything you take on the course with you.  Which apparently is what Colin did.

Which begs the question. Is using the detailed greens books still OK just as long as 1)  You don't bring it with you during a competitive round and 2) you don't copy anything over to the notes you bring with you?

[Michael Moore]

Let me get this straight. If I'm with a woman the night before, and she's lying on the bed, and I'm like damn baby, you look just like the fourth green, and I put a protractor onto her iliac crest and write down the results in my yardage book, that's a penalty? Yes, this is a serious question.

[Charlie Goerges]

Let me get this straight. If I'm with a woman the night before, and she's lying on the bed, and I'm like damn baby, you look just like the fourth green, and I put a protractor onto her iliac crest and write down the results in my yardage book, that's a penalty? Yes, this is a serious question.

I'm laughing right now. I can't answer this, Double Call for John VDB!!!!

[Kalen Braley]

Let me get this straight. If I'm with a woman the night before, and she's lying on the bed, and I'm like damn baby, you look just like the fourth green, and I put a protractor onto her iliac crest and write down the results in my yardage book, that's a penalty? Yes, this is a serious question.

Hilarious Michael!

I guess you'd need to be careful with similar prep work before playing the 12th at Bel-Air as well! 

[Pat Burke]

Charlie,

As I understand it.

If you use any parts of your body to get the info (feet, eyes, legs, etc) or have a chat with someone else, you can do what you like with said info, up to and including writing it down in the notes you take on the course.

However if you use a device to gain that info, you can still use that info during the round just as long as you don't write it down on anything you take on the course with you.  Which apparently is what Colin did.

Which begs the question. Is using the detailed greens books still OK just as long as 1)  You don't bring it with you during a competitive round and 2) you don't copy anything over to the notes you bring with you?

As I understand it. Yes


You can get the hole locations which are released very accurately. Scope out in a greens book whatever info you may want or need


But can NOT have it written down


I would do my damnedest to figure out where the straight putt from 5/6 feet is and commit it to memory every round
Caddy and player doing so would probably get a pretty high number correct combined

[Kalen Braley]

Pat,

Makes sense, thanks for the clarification.

On a side note I looked at PGA Tour putting stats for the last 4 seasons, the last 2 seasons with books not being allowed, and the previous 2 from when they were.  When looking at putts made from various distances, (inside 5, 5 to 10, 10 to 15, 15 to 20, 20 to 25, and 25+) the tour averages were very close and appeared to be within normal variation.

I also looked at 3 putt avoidance and it appears players are actually doing slightly better across 3 distances (10 to 15, 15 to 20, and 25+) since the ban of the green books.

I know this is only 4 seasons worth, but a quick sanity check appears the greens books perhaps weren't really helping.

[Ronald Montesano]

No, it is not a penalty, because she is not the golf playing surface.

And this is the silliest thing I've read on GCA over twenty years.

Let me get this straight. If I'm with a woman the night before, and she's lying on the bed, and I'm like damn baby, you look just like the fourth green, and I put a protractor onto her iliac crest and write down the results in my yardage book, that's a penalty? Yes, this is a serious question.

[Rob Marshall]

There is an interview with Colin on saw on the internet and he explains what happened very clearly. They used a level to message the slope on the practice green and then hit a putt. At the speed the greens were, a 10' putt on a 2% slope broke 6 inches. (my example) They wrote that in the yardage book. You can't do that.

[Michael Moore]

Thank you Rob.
 
And then Colin used his inner ears to measure the slope on the fourth green to exactly two percent, paced off the putt to exactly ten feet, aimed exactly six inches out, and was lucky that the practice green was running exactly the same as the fourth.

[Tim Martin]

I don’t recall seeing any contestant at a PGA Tour event using a level on the practice green. Is this common within the tour ranks?

[Rob Marshall]

Thank you Rob.
 
And then Colin used his inner ears to measure the slope on the fourth green to exactly two percent, paced off the putt to exactly ten feet, aimed exactly six inches out, and was lucky that the practice green was running exactly the same as the fourth.

Mike, It's the way all these systems work. You need to be able to either see or feel the % slope and factor in length and stimp. Aimpoint does it with your feet, fingers and arm extension. I think it's called Tour Aim, you pace it off and do some math........

[Kalen Braley]

If Colin and his caddie were on the 4th hole at dusk taking measurements and such, this is no doubt a penalty.

However, the practice green as I understand it is not actually apart of the course, even if it may present a similar playing surface.  In that context Michael's lady analogy still stands (at least the spirit of it anyways)   

P.S.  I recall an article years ago where Tiger used the gym floor at Stanford to putt to prepare for ANGC.  I suspect writing down anything in the notes from that exercise would be banned too if he used a stimp to get the speed.

[Peter Sayegh]

Can't believe this is even a rule. What was its origin?

Execution always trumps information/"knowledge."

[Jim Sherma]

New skillset for caddies I guess. If Rain Man could carry a bag he could memorize the entire season's green books and be perfect.

[Pat Burke]

Pat,

Makes sense, thanks for the clarification.

On a side note I looked at PGA Tour putting stats for the last 4 seasons, the last 2 seasons with books not being allowed, and the previous 2 from when they were.  When looking at putts made from various distances, (inside 5, 5 to 10, 10 to 15, 15 to 20, 20 to 25, and 25+) the tour averages were very close and appeared to be within normal variation.

I also looked at 3 putt avoidance and it appears players are actually doing slightly better across 3 distances (10 to 15, 15 to 20, and 25+) since the ban of the green books.

I know this is only 4 seasons worth, but a quick sanity check appears the greens books perhaps weren't really helping.

That’s interesting.
Would be interesting to see if there is much difference from
No greens books allowed
Vs
Size and data restricted
And then vs
The original bigger greens books

[Kalen Braley]

Pat,

Makes sense, thanks for the clarification.

On a side note I looked at PGA Tour putting stats for the last 4 seasons, the last 2 seasons with books not being allowed, and the previous 2 from when they were.  When looking at putts made from various distances, (inside 5, 5 to 10, 10 to 15, 15 to 20, 20 to 25, and 25+) the tour averages were very close and appeared to be within normal variation.

I also looked at 3 putt avoidance and it appears players are actually doing slightly better across 3 distances (10 to 15, 15 to 20, and 25+) since the ban of the green books.

I know this is only 4 seasons worth, but a quick sanity check appears the greens books perhaps weren't really helping.

That’s interesting.
Would be interesting to see if there is much difference from
No greens books allowed
Vs
Size and data restricted
And then vs
The original bigger greens books

Pat,

So I went back an additional 3 seasons, all where the bigger books were still allowed...and the pattern still holds.

As a general rule, making putts from 5 feet and up are still basically unchanged.  And surprisingly 3 putt avoidance appears to better now vs then.  For example the tour average for 3 putt avoidance for putts of 25+ is more than a full percentage point better now, 10.29 in 2017 vs 9.06 in 2023, (Brian Stuard led this year at 3.88). Perhaps guys are doing better because they are actually studying the green and surrounds vs their head buried in notes. 


Edit:  Additional metadata

Even though the percentages were close, of the 9 categories I looked at:
- 5 of the best 9 averages all occurred this season.
- All 9 of the worst occurred when the bigger books were still allowed.