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Robin_Hiseman

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Re: THE GOLF COURSES OF SETH RAYNOR: the book
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2023, 07:24:11 AM »
The customs declaration form on my parcel describes the contents as 'Children's picture, drawing or colouring books'.


I am poised with the Crayola, tempted to fill in the blank spaces of all those rectangular Raynor bunkers.




2024: RSt.D; Mill Ride; Milford; Notts; JCB, Jameson Links, Druids Glen, Royal Dublin, Portmarnock, Old Head, Addington, Parkstone, Denham, Thurlestone, Dartmouth, Rustic Canyon, LACC (N), MPCC (Shore), Cal Club, San Fran, Epsom, Casa Serena, Hayling, Co. Sligo, Strandhill, Carne, Cleeve Hill

Niall C

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Re: THE GOLF COURSES OF SETH RAYNOR: the book
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2023, 07:27:27 AM »
@Niall C

Raynor was also the mentor of Charles Banks who completed many of Raynor's unfinished works after he died. Banks went on to a solo design career, creating approximately 15 courses.


So how many did he (Raynor) do on his own that you can definitively say was his design ?


Niall

Jonathan Cummings

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Re: THE GOLF COURSES OF SETH RAYNOR: the book
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2023, 11:44:29 AM »
Pioppi has told me that Raynor did about 75 designs, of which about 55 were ever built and about 35 are still in existence today.

Niall C

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Re: THE GOLF COURSES OF SETH RAYNOR: the book
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2023, 03:50:37 PM »
Jonathan,


To be clear, that's 55 pure Raynor designs that were built ?


Niall

Jonathan Cummings

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Re: THE GOLF COURSES OF SETH RAYNOR: the book
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2023, 07:56:03 AM »
Niall - don't know.  Ask Pioppi and/or Bret Lawrence.  They'll both know chapter and verse.  I suspect since there is so little written info on Raynor's agreements with various clubs (it seems it was mostly verbal based on a handshake), where the Raynor solo and Raynor joint dividing line is with his designs will forever be murky.

Paul Rudovsky

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Re: THE GOLF COURSES OF SETH RAYNOR: the book
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2023, 10:56:36 AM »

Niall - don't know.  Ask Pioppi and/or Bret Lawrence.  They'll both know chapter and verse.  I suspect since there is so little written info on Raynor's agreements with various clubs (it seems it was mostly verbal based on a handshake), where the Raynor solo and Raynor joint dividing line is with his designs will forever be murky.

Even if there were written agreements, I get a sense that CBM and Raynor were such good friends that they probably helped each other on each others projects (which would mean that CBM gave ideas and thoughts to Raynor...since CBM had at least officially retired)

Tim_Weiman

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Re: THE GOLF COURSES OF SETH RAYNOR: the book
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2023, 03:54:39 PM »
A word of caution regarding Back Nine Press:


I ordered and paid for the book but never received it.


It may have been my fault or it may have been the fault of the publisher.


Apparently the book was sent to my former address; they claim this is how I ordered.


I can’t prove otherwise and the book is now lost.


Makes me appreciate Amazon. They send both an order and delivery confirmation email. Back Nine Press didn’t send either.


I’m sure the book is very good. But my caution is just that Back Nine Press appears to be missing critical customer service processes (an order confirmation to check and delivery confirmation heads up).







Tim Weiman

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THE GOLF COURSES OF SETH RAYNOR: the book
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2023, 04:30:01 PM »
A word of caution regarding Back Nine Press:


I ordered and paid for the book but never received it.


It may have been my fault or it may have been the fault of the publisher.


Apparently the book was sent to my former address; they claim this is how I ordered.


I can’t prove otherwise and the book is now lost.


Makes me appreciate Amazon. They send both an order and delivery confirmation email. Back Nine Press didn’t send either.


I’m sure the book is very good. But my caution is just that Back Nine Press appears to be missing critical customer service processes (an order confirmation to check and delivery confirmation heads up).


Not to hijack this thread or fault anyone associated with Raynor book, but upon further checking it does appear Back Nine Press is correct in that when I ordered the book back in July I was still living in Houston.


Six months later the book was delivered to that old address. I forgot about the order until I recently received a request to review the book. The USPS ignored my forwarding address and now the book is lost.


A delivery confirmation like Amazon might have helped.
Tim Weiman

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THE GOLF COURSES OF SETH RAYNOR: the book
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2023, 05:04:27 PM »
Tim,


I ordered mine shortly after this thread popped up, and it arrived yesterday, about a week after order.  Sorry you had a problem, but they do arise from time to time.  When they do, I usually find I had some sort of stubby finger typing syndrome that was the root cause, so I feel your pain.


Nice book, BTW.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: THE GOLF COURSES OF SETH RAYNOR: the book
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2023, 07:45:09 PM »
I’m sure the book is very good. But my caution is just that Back Nine Press appears to be missing critical customer service processes (an order confirmation to check and delivery confirmation heads up).
I got both. And then some.



Perhaps it went to your spam folder and you didn't notice.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, Garland, and Chris.

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THE GOLF COURSES OF SETH RAYNOR: the book
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2023, 02:50:19 AM »
I’m sure the book is very good. But my caution is just that Back Nine Press appears to be missing critical customer service processes (an order confirmation to check and delivery confirmation heads up).
I got both. And then some.



Perhaps it went to your spam folder and you didn't notice.
Erik,


That’s possible, but I did receive an email from Back Nine saying they would love my feedback on the book. So, IDK if some emails from a source would be sent to spam while others weren’t.


Anyway, bottom line is that I paid for the book in July and never received it.
Tim Weiman

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: THE GOLF COURSES OF SETH RAYNOR: the book
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2023, 07:49:44 AM »
Anyway, bottom line is that I paid for the book in July and never received it.
I'm sorry you didn't get your book - it's fabulous - and I'm not going to stan for BNP (never had a bad experience with them, though, over several books, and they've emailed just the right amount for me), but you had it mailed to your old address. Maybe it'll make its way back to them, and you can pay the shipping to have it sent to your new address. We've had books returned to us and we just send them media mail.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2023, 07:59:21 AM by Erik J. Barzeski »
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, Garland, and Chris.

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THE GOLF COURSES OF SETH RAYNOR: the book
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2023, 05:08:16 PM »
I probably don’t have all the dates clear, but I kind of wonder why Raynor didn’t do what became Springdale.


Hugh Wilson was the Captain at Princeton and played at an early version of the course.
He was on the Greens Committee at that time.


You have to assume Hugh Wilson maintained the connection and recommended Flynn.
"Appreciate the constructive; ignore the destructive." -- John Douglas

Steve Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THE GOLF COURSES OF SETH RAYNOR: the book
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2023, 03:03:52 PM »
book is fantastic thus far (almost done with reading it).  very cool to see the lineage of CBMac, Raynor, Banks all packed into one resource. 


The pics in the book from Lookout Mountain are post-restoration too.  Eager to see how Essex County CC and others from the book currently going through a renovation/restoration look next year
« Last Edit: December 18, 2023, 04:20:34 PM by Steve Kennedy »

Steve Kennedy

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Re: THE GOLF COURSES OF SETH RAYNOR: the book
« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2023, 03:23:11 PM »
also, pictures of the new Yale will warrant a version 2 of this book once that restoration is complete...

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THE GOLF COURSES OF SETH RAYNOR: the book
« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2024, 01:22:19 PM »
A companion book is Bahto's Evangelist of Golf. They serve as a great history of the two great architects.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Cal Seifert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THE GOLF COURSES OF SETH RAYNOR: the book
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2024, 06:24:59 PM »
A companion book is Bahto's Evangelist of Golf. They serve as a great history of the two great architects.


Hoping that book is re-published someday. Secondary market prices are ridiculous.

Michael Wolf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THE GOLF COURSES OF SETH RAYNOR: the book
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2024, 07:08:13 PM »
A companion book is Bahto's Evangelist of Golf. They serve as a great history of the two great architects.


Hoping that book is re-published someday. Secondary market prices are ridiculous.


I think you'll be hearing some good news very soon...