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Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

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Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Golf Courses in Continental Europe
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2023, 09:44:09 AM »
I haven't played Lofoten, but from what I've seen online, I have a hard time seeing how it could ranked a lot higher than Kennemer, Noordwijkse (which I know has its critics) and just one place behind Royal Hague. Maybe the "scenery" weighting accounts for 90% of the actual rating? But of course, ratings should never be taken seriously.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2023, 09:52:01 AM by Dónal Ó Ceallaigh »

Jeff Schley

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Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Golf Courses in Continental Europe
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2023, 10:23:23 AM »
So the Ryder Cup course which opened almost 2 years before either Lido or Cabot St. Lucia, can only get to 89 on the Continental Europe list? While Lido or Cabot St. Lucia,  can crack the World Top 100 at 68 and 76 respectfully. Europe is pretty weak as a whole and I really liked how Marco Simone played for the best players in the best tournament. 
« Last Edit: October 26, 2023, 10:26:32 AM by Jeff Schley »
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Sean_A

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Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Golf Courses in Continental Europe
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2023, 12:20:43 PM »
I haven't played Lofoten, but from what I've seen online, I have a hard time seeing how it could ranked a lot higher than Kennemer, Noordwijkse (which I know has its critics) and just one place behind Royal Hague. Maybe the "scenery" weighting accounts for 90% of the actual rating? But of course, ratings should never be taken seriously.

I wanted to go to Lofoten. Saw a few vids and I have cooled off to the place.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

George Smiltins

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Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Golf Courses in Continental Europe
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2023, 01:02:15 PM »
Royal Hague at 78 on the World Top 100 with De Pan not even on the list and then de Pan is ahead of it on this list?

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Golf Courses in Continental Europe
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2023, 01:07:57 PM »
Royal Hague at 78 on the World Top 100 with De Pan not even on the list and then de Pan is ahead of it on this list?


Which World Top 100 list?
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.


Mark Pearce

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Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Golf Courses in Continental Europe
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2023, 01:29:55 PM »
Royal Hague at 78 on the World Top 100 with De Pan not even on the list and then de Pan is ahead of it on this list?
There's very little between the 51-100 on a World list.  And there's very little between de Pan and RH.  FWIW I slightly preferred RH on my one visit to de Pan on two but both are truly excellent courses and I could very easily go back and have it the other way around.


Though one of the most enjoyable golfing afternoons of my life was the post round lunch at de Pan with Mike Whitaker, Ward Peyronin and Conrad Gamble.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Golf Courses in Continental Europe
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2023, 02:17:18 PM »
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Golf Courses in Continental Europe
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2023, 02:50:56 PM »
I haven't played Lofoten, but from what I've seen online, I have a hard time seeing how it could ranked a lot higher than Kennemer, Noordwijkse (which I know has its critics) and just one place behind Royal Hague. Maybe the "scenery" weighting accounts for 90% of the actual rating? But of course, ratings should never be taken seriously.

I wanted to go to Lofoten. Saw a few vids and I have cooled off to the place.

Ciao


I have Norwegian heritage on both sides of my family, so I root for Lofoten. I played it last year and found it enchanting and stunningly beautiful. I enjoyed the course but found it a bit narrow, and the greens were not as interesting as I had hoped. Is it overrated? Probably. But Sean, I spent a week on Lofoten and could build a house there. There are few places more spectacular.
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"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

David Jones

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Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Golf Courses in Continental Europe
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2023, 02:51:16 PM »
I haven't played Lofoten, but from what I've seen online, I have a hard time seeing how it could ranked a lot higher than Kennemer, Noordwijkse (which I know has its critics) and just one place behind Royal Hague. Maybe the "scenery" weighting accounts for 90% of the actual rating? But of course, ratings should never be taken seriously.


I was but one voice on the panel for this ranking, but I have played all of the courses you mention and, for me, Lofoten is really in a different league than Kennemer and Noordwijkse.


For the European Golf World ranking, setting makes up 15% and memorability makes up 15% of the scoring. Lofoten out scores the other two by a country mile on those metrics.

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Golf Courses in Continental Europe
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2023, 03:52:05 PM »
I haven't played Lofoten, but from what I've seen online, I have a hard time seeing how it could ranked a lot higher than Kennemer, Noordwijkse (which I know has its critics) and just one place behind Royal Hague. Maybe the "scenery" weighting accounts for 90% of the actual rating? But of course, ratings should never be taken seriously.

I was but one voice on the panel for this ranking, but I have played all of the courses you mention and, for me, Lofoten is really in a different league than Kennemer and Noordwijkse.

For the European Golf World ranking, setting makes up 15% and memorability makes up 15% of the scoring. Lofoten out scores the other two by a country mile on those metrics.

I have been to Lofoten twice, once before the eighteen hole course was completed and once not long after, with Chris Bertram who runs this ranking. I think we were two of the very first journalists to see the course.

Chris got there before I did, and had played at least one, and I think two rounds before I arrived. I asked him, before going out, what it was like to play. His first comment was that it appeared, at first, very narrow, and that in places it was quite tight, but that after you'd been round once, you started to see the places you could miss, and realise it wasn't quite as tight as it looked. After a couple of rounds, I agreed with him on that. I am no-one's idea of a straight hitter, and I didn't lose anything like so many balls as I expected to. A few, but not the dozens I had worried about.

I am not on Chris's panel, though there is an article by me in this ranking supplement (about Colt, natch...), but I will say this. I did not come away from Lofoten after that visit thinking at the forefront of my brain, 'This is one of the four best courses in Europe'. But I did come away thinking 'This is BY FAR the most spectacular place I have ever been to play golf'.

Now, if you don't value the spectacular in golf courses, but are laser-focused on architecture, that is your right, and I can see merits in your argument. But the success in rankings panels of spectacular courses, especially seaside ones, suggests you are in a very small minority.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2023, 03:55:34 PM by Adam Lawrence »
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Wayne_Kozun

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Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Golf Courses in Continental Europe
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2023, 04:05:14 PM »
Maybe a nitpick - but Iceland is continental Europe but UK and Ireland are not? Strange geography.

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Golf Courses in Continental Europe
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2023, 04:06:21 PM »
Maybe a nitpick - but Iceland is continental Europe but UK and Ireland are not? Strange geography.



I don't think it is a geographical issue, but a practical one. There are plenty of UK and Ireland lists; this one is supposed to highlight other stuff.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Dan_Callahan

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Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Golf Courses in Continental Europe
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2023, 04:14:19 PM »
This list makes me appreciate just how great the courses in the UK and Ireland are.

Wayne_Kozun

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Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Golf Courses in Continental Europe
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2023, 04:19:55 PM »
Maybe a nitpick - but Iceland is continental Europe but UK and Ireland are not? Strange geography.



I don't think it is a geographical issue, but a practical one. There are plenty of UK and Ireland lists; this one is supposed to highlight other stuff.
Understood.  What about courses from places like Jersey.  Would they be on the GB&I list?

Sean_A

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Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Golf Courses in Continental Europe New
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2023, 04:21:50 PM »
I haven't played Lofoten, but from what I've seen online, I have a hard time seeing how it could ranked a lot higher than Kennemer, Noordwijkse (which I know has its critics) and just one place behind Royal Hague. Maybe the "scenery" weighting accounts for 90% of the actual rating? But of course, ratings should never be taken seriously.

I wanted to go to Lofoten. Saw a few vids and I have cooled off to the place.

Ciao

I have Norwegian heritage on both sides of my family, so I root for Lofoten. I played it last year and found it enchanting and stunningly beautiful. I enjoyed the course but found it a bit narrow, and the greens were not as interesting as I had hoped. Is it overrated? Probably. But Sean, I spent a week on Lofoten and could build a house there. There are few places more spectacular.

I had Lofoten lined up when Covid hit because I thought it might be a great course and it was easy to tag along. I am less sure about that now and have other places I prioritise. I can get a spectacular setting in limitless places without sticks. Now, if someone wants to pay my way….

BTW I don’t consider GB&I continental Europe….that’s straight forward geography. I would be very surprised if any Brits or Irish do. In fact, I know of many Brits who don’t consider themselves European. That said, the list is more accurate as non English as first language. Quite a mouthful.

Ciao
« Last Edit: October 27, 2023, 12:41:29 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Golf World Top 100: Best Golf Courses in Continental Europe
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2023, 04:35:53 PM »

I had Lofoten lined up when Covid hit because I thought it might be a great course and it was easy to tag along. I am less sure about that now and have other places I prioritise. Lofoten moved well down the I can get a spectacular setting in limitless places without sticks. Now, if someone wants to pay my way….



That’s obviously a perfectly reasonable view. It’s much easier when someone else is paying, or when it’s business and therefore tax deductible.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.