What course has the potential to be the next Old Town Club or Winged Foot East?

[Andrew Carr]

I second this answer.  There are 12 original holes and 16 original green sites.  They course still has all the original acreage.  This is one that simply needs the political will.


Right now and for some time, Suffolk County has view it as a cash cow but balanced that against the want for cheap golf for residents.  There is a new County Executive, so we'll see if the commissioner of Suffolk County Parks, Recreation and Conservation changes with this new administration.

Unfortunately, it will almost certainly not happen, but Timber Point on Long Island is the course with the biggest upside potential.  There are still some holes left after the expansion to 27 holes but it was extraordinary from the few people I spoke to that saw the C. H. Alison design.

[Greg Hohman]

San Diego Country Club

Matt, you floored me with this one. Has San Diego CC revamped its website? I don’t remember seeing it there before. After revisiting the site, I can say it seems to be a thumbnail image that is not viewable again or explained. The club originated where Balboa Park stands today, so I can’t second a rebirth there. But this image is the best I have seen and really brings the course to life (for me) for the first time. Many thanks!

[Matt_Cohn]

San Diego Country Club

Matt, you floored me with this one. Has San Diego CC revamped its website? I don’t remember seeing it there before. After revisiting the site, I can say it seems to be a thumbnail image that is not viewable again or explained. The club originated where Balboa Park stands today, so I can’t second a rebirth there. But this image is the best I have seen and really brings the course to life (for me) for the first time. Many thanks!

TBH, I have no idea where on the property this photo would be or which version of the course it is. But I'll do you one better, which is to post this picture of what the par-3 third hole used to look like. This is hanging on the wall in the locker room. I know there is at least discussion of various renovation possibilities at the club, but I have no idea who or what is involved.

[Greg Hohman]

San Diego Country Club

Matt, you floored me with this one. Has San Diego CC revamped its website? I don’t remember seeing it there before. After revisiting the site, I can say it seems to be a thumbnail image that is not viewable again or explained. The club originated where Balboa Park stands today, so I can’t second a rebirth there. But this image is the best I have seen and really brings the course to life (for me) for the first time. Many thanks!

TBH, I have no idea where on the property this photo would be or which version of the course it is. But I'll do you one better, which is to post this picture of what the par-3 third hole used to look like. This is hanging on the wall in the locker room. I know there is at least discussion of various renovation possibilities at the club, but I have no idea who or what is involved.

If that is the original site, City Park (the future Balboa Park), yes, you have indeed done one better! However, my first impression is that this second pic is of the club's current location in Chula Vista south of SD. The 3rd at City Park was called Dos Barrancos.

[Matt_Cohn]

Yes, that’s the old version of the current 3rd hole.

[Sean_A]

Old Town is special. Not many courses have the bones to be in its class. That said, of the courses I know, I think there is an awesome course in Princes’ past.

Not often mentioned for reno work, but there is a far better course in Huntercombe’s bones.

I sometimes think Sandwich is not what it was in the past.

Happy New Year

[Jerry Kluger]

Sean: From what I just read the Prince course in southern England was originally 18 holes and was destroyed during WW II and then rebuilt afterwards with 3 nine hole layouts incorporating many of the original greens but not the holes - is this your understanding?

[Sean_A]

Sean: From what I just read the Prince course in southern England was originally 18 holes and was destroyed during WW II and then rebuilt afterwards with 3 nine hole layouts incorporating many of the original greens but not the holes - is this your understanding?

Yes. The original routing was much different. The course spread over the current three 9s starting at what is now the Lodges. There was a lot more over dunes rather than between dunes. Plus the dunes were seriously flattened by military vehicles.


Happy New Year

[Tommy Williamsen]

It has been years since I have been there with Sean, but I would like to see Beau Desert remove some trees.

[Steve Zivin]

It’s not Old Town or Winged Foot but I would love to see Spring Valley in Wisconsin restored. There are precious few Langford and Moreau courses left with the bones still intact.

[Bill Crane]

While it does not quite have the potential to be an Old Town,  the Pines course at Seaview in the Southern NJ shore could really be special if there was money and vision to work on it.   
Some of the original holes were apparently moved for the range, but there is much rolling sandy terrain left to replace those.   
Could really be good.

[Jason Topp]

San Diego Country Club

Matt - Have you played San Diego in the last couple of years?   I think it is pretty fantastic now.   There are a few trees, but not many. 

[Pete Lavallee]

SDCC interviewed 5-6 architects and all of them recommended removing the Aleppo pine trees; 485 in all! The Eucalyptus were thinned out as well. Most of the par 4’s are straight away so it didn’t affect the strategy that much. However on the dogleg right par 5 8th and 14th hole’s players just take a bee line to the green and play from the 1” rough. I was told by a member that Renaissance will update the strategy but Tom will not be on site.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

Isn't Brian Schneider going to be doing the work at SDCC?

[David Kelly]

Riviera - last of the unrestored/unrenovated courses in Los Angeles.  I would love to see it completely re-grassed as well but others probably feel that it's the kikuyu that is keeping the course relevant to today's pros.


Far lesser impact but just as needed:

Ojai Valley Inn - can't be restored because of the construction but could definitely be improved
Griffith Park - Wilson and Harding Courses

[Joel_Stewart]

Winged Foot East was always well regarded. Old Town had some history with Palmer and the Wake Forest crowd. 


I think the better question is what course has the potential to go from nothing to top 100.  Very few people here including Ran had never heard of Cal Club until the renovation/restoration by Kyle Phillips.  Sleepy Hollow the same until Gil did his work.


There's very few hidden gems left, especially with that much potential.

[Greg Hohman]

Agua Caliente (1929, William P. Bell), Tijuana MX. In recent years, talk has ranged from eminent domain to restoration by Agustin Piza. Throw in the border of old and Prohibition and you have a restoration.

[Paul Rudovsky]

Joel--

Given that there are something like 38,000 golf courses worldwide, and the focus of the people who go to GCA or even just are mildly interested in golf architecture tends to be directed at something like maybe 500 courses worldwide, I find it hard to imagine that there are "very few hidden gems left".  My guess is that there are dozens that are highly interesting in their current state and perhaps hundreds that have "great bones" but are in need of some good "plastic surgery"...and that hidden gems will be found for quite some time now.

[mike_malone]

It seems that the candidates are
   Classics with a  name designer
   Recovered from damage done
   Originally great.
   

[Brian Finn]

It seems that the candidates are
   Classics with a  name designer
   Recovered from damage done
   Originally great.

What about The Cascades?  While I am hesitant to mention it, because I have never played it, everything I have read about it over the last 20 years suggests it was once truly great.  Between Ran's course profile (from '09 or so?), several threads here, and Wayne Morrison and Tom Paul's "The Nature Faker" book on Flynn (not to mention that it seems they created a master plan ~15 years ago), it sounds like The Cascades has the potential to return to greatness in a way few courses could.   


Edit:  re-read the whole thread, and Sir Spivey already suggested The Cascades.  I just happened to be reading old threads about it, and thought of this topic. 

[mike_malone]

I played the Cascades a few years ago and really enjoyed it. It had recently been worked on and I think maybe Wayne was involved. It is 97 in Golfweek Classic and probably could rise from there. It needs to work to be considered “ the best classic mountain course”.

[Jaeger Kovich]

Cedarbrook in Blue Bell, PA and Knickerbocker in Tenafly, NJ.


It may take a few more years to get the work done and a few more years after that to get the attention, but these two courses are on their way.


The Travis/ Schneider NJCC also seems prime… and maybe Yahnundasis one day too, but I don’t think the location is gonna help.


Oyster Harbors if they ever get it together.

[jeffwarne]

  Sleepy Hollow the same until Gil did his work.


There's very few hidden gems left, especially with that much potential.

I have to disagree about Sleepy Hollow.
it had a bad renovation around 1994-1995, but it was always very highly regarded in the MET Section, and certainly was spoken positively about here.
Hard to say it went from "nothing" to Top 100.


If wholesale renovations are in play, I'd say there are countless potential hidden gems, especially with the scale of recent renovations that could truly take a "nothing" on a great site to a something.
Sleepy Hollow, even at its worst, was never at "nothing", and I would argue was ALWAYS better than Hudson National, which was in the Top 100 well before Sleepy's reno.