What course has the potential to be the next Old Town Club or Winged Foot East?

[Jerry Kluger]

Thanks to the tireless perseverance of Dunlop White at the Old Town Club and Neil Regan at Winged Foot East two fantastic courses were restored and came to be recognized as important courses in the history of the game. The question I am asking is what course do you see as having the potential to be as glorious as those two if someone had the ability to convince those in charge that the restoration would be worth the expense and the effort needed to accomplish such a feat?

[Cal Seifert]

With the way restorations at top end clubs have been going, the question soon will be 'which clubs aren't restored yet?'


Yale would probably be a common answer to this question had it been 2 years ago. We will see how that restoration goes.


Likewise for the Addington.

[mike_malone]

 As for Philadelphia I can’t think of such a candidate. As Cal says few stellar classic courses are untouched.


  This may sound crazy but Pine Valley is probably the Philly area classic that could be most dramatically changed.

[mike_malone]

 Previous post appeared

[mike_beene]

What if the original Ross 18 at the Broadmoor could be restored and played as one course at least some of the time. Other than Dornick Hills, that about exhausts the options out here on the frontier. Maybe something is left In Pittsburgh. Andrew Green is going to Charlotte CC next year and resuming or taking over what they started and going another direction.

[Kyle Harris]

As for Philadelphia I can’t think of such a candidate. As Cal says few stellar classic courses are untouched.


  This may sound crazy but Pine Valley is probably the Philly area classic that could be most dramatically changed.

Cobb’s Creek is the answer. Pine Valley not far behind, though!

[Ronald Montesano]

I believe that Pittsburgh Field Club has way more potential than the work done to date.


I believe that Crag Burn (Buffalo area) will make some noise in the next few years.

[Will Spivey]

Jerry, interesting topic!


I would nominate The Cascades course at the Homestead. With the removal of 10,000 trees (not exaggerating, and it would still be a heavily wooded course) and some other TLC it could be amazing.

[mike_malone]

As for Philadelphia I can’t think of such a candidate. As Cal says few stellar classic courses are untouched.




  This may sound crazy but Pine Valley is probably the Philly area classic that could be most dramatically changed.

Cobb’s Creek is the answer. Pine Valley not far behind, though!

Kyle,
Dah!  You’re right.

[Brett Wiesley]

Baltusrol Upper - set to be renovated by Gil Hanse and crew


Much more exciting terrain and movement than the Lower.

[Brian Finn]

What about Bethpage Black?  While it may not be likely to happen, doesn't the Black course have tremendous potential to be improved upon? 

I have been thinking a bit about what adjustments might be made in the leadup to the Ryder Cup, and while it may just be a dream for me, it seemed like widening the fairways significantly would be a good idea. 

[Adam_Messix]

Unfortunately, it will almost certainly not happen, but Timber Point on Long Island is the course with the biggest upside potential.  There are still some holes left after the expansion to 27 holes but it was extraordinary from the few people I spoke to that saw the C. H. Alison design.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Baltusrol Upper - set to be renovated by Gil Hanse and crew


Much more exciting terrain and movement than the Lower.

I'll second that, although he membership isn't excited for it to close for a year, because the Lower was closed for a year two years ago. Many members would rather play the Upper because it is more fun, yet still requires good play.

[Kalen Braley]

Wasn't Pasatiempo the pre-cursor to those two?

Having seen the before and after it was a dramatic turn-around.

[Andrew Harvie]

Grand-Mere: Walter Travis, C.H. Alison

[Dunlop_White]

Thanks to the tireless perseverance of Dunlop White at the Old Town Club and Neil Regan at Winged Foot East two fantastic courses were restored and came to be recognized as important courses in the history of the game. The question I am asking is what course do you see as having the potential to be as glorious as those two if someone had the ability to convince those in charge that the restoration would be worth the expense and the effort needed to accomplish such a feat?

Thanks Jerry. Much appreciated. As for “perseverance,” fortunately we have a governance structure that permits a golf chair/custodian, for example, to persevere — and sustain some continuity and vision over time.  Good to hear that Yale will finally benefit from restoration work. However, I think we will likely see more restoration renewals than new restorations soon.  For instance, Old Town just re-opened after our second C&C update in 11 years. ….…Golf courses evolve constantly. They're “living organisms” and change in nature all the time. Infrastructure has a life, and chances are infra-structure needs will help drive re-restorations in the coming years.

[Tim Martin]

Baltusrol Upper - set to be renovated by Gil Hanse and crew


Much more exciting terrain and movement than the Lower.

I'll second that, although he membership isn't excited for it to close for a year, because the Lower was closed for a year two years ago. Many members would rather play the Upper because it is more fun, yet still requires good play.

Tom-I think that was the case before the lower was restored by Gil Hanse. My understanding is that since its completion it’s been way more difficult for members to get a tee time on the lower. It will be interesting to see which course members prefer when both have been “Hansified”.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I get to Baltusrol at least once a year. I brought two friends on Labor Day Weekend. Our host had to get special permission to bring three guests as they are only allowed one guest on holidays. The Lower has always been busy. It is the course that guests want to play. Baltusrol has 1000 members. Last August, my member friend had a tee time for us on the Lower. It was so busy that we played the Upper when we got there.

[jeffwarne]

This one seems pretty simple.
ANGC.

[Jeff Schley]

Three come to mind.

• Kankakee Elks - Can only hope they scrape together enough funds to at least buy a chainsaw.  Economically depressed area, but such great L&M history and the greens deserve restoration.
• Ojai Valley Inn - Haven't played there in quite a while, but hasn't been touched I don't believe. It needed work a decade or two ago, the resort owners charge a pretty penny so this Thomas course we hope gets thrown a nickel.
• Kawana Fuji - Stunning property, when you can see it through all the trees. I have no idea what the course originally looked like when Alison designed it, but it is still overly treed despite some cutting recently I was told.  Let this course turf breath a little.

[Ronald Montesano]

Drew Harvie nails it with Grand-Mere. The owners are very excited to return the course to Travis' vision, and have joined the Walter J. Travis Society (as should you all as proof of commitment. http://www.golfgrandmere.com/

If you don't follow Drew on the socials, you should. This gadabout rivals Cory Lewis for peripatetic wanderings. Like Jon Cavalier, he got his start here, and we should be proud.

Is potential stuck in neutral without a champion? I believe that DW got his restorative juice across Winston-Salem town at Forsyth Country Club, which is a really neat DJRjr course, albeit not at the level of OTC. Now, DW has moved on to a third course (Roaring Gap  http://dunlopwhite.com/www.dunlopwhite.com/Restoration_and_Tree_Management_files/TriadGolf_Roaring%20Gap.pdf) althought you'll find him at OTC more often than not

I'd love to see Bellevue in Syracuse, NY, without trees. The membership seems to love them, so it's doubtful that it will happen. The property is a massive ski slope all around, and the potential for other-hole vistas is frighteningly high.

[D_Malley]

There was some talk about 10 years ago about a "Tom Doak" restoration of the original (Tillinghast designed) Shawnee golf course in the Poconos. I know that Tom Doak was looking at this project back then, but it never came to fruition. Curious what Tom's perspective is on the potential there. The course was chopped up into a 27 hole routing but I think most of the original greens are still in existance.

[Tim Martin]

With the way restorations at top end clubs have been going, the question soon will be 'which clubs aren't restored yet?'


Yale would probably be a common answer to this question had it been 2 years ago. We will see how that restoration goes.


Likewise for the Addington.

Cal-Yale was the course that popped into my head with its scale, unique landforms(some created when originally built) and boldness of design.

[Matt_Cohn]

San Diego Country Club

[David_Madison]

Dunlop - Your point is dead on if not understated. Old Town Club was not just renovated and then re-renovated a few years later. I can't remember a year in-between where you didn't drive some additional improvements. Tree removal, native grass plantings, even bringing in a new superintendent and other key staff who helped move things forward - - step by step, piece by piece you pushed things forward towards realizing your vision in a way that no renovation and re-renovation could ever accomplish without first having someone like you having that vision. While this thread has identified a bunch of excellent candidate courses, it first has to start with someone like you with both the vision and the perseverance to take on what's likely to be a 10-20 year process.