The best superintendents are golfers? Yes or No

[William_G]

Yes!


How could you not play golf as a superintendent?


Just not to play the course you work, but playing golf at all??


Thank you

[Ken Moum]

Yes!


How could you not play golf as a superintendent?


Thank you

I have mostly favored supers who play, but will say that really low-handicap superintendents have, in some cases,  been unable to see the viewpoint of bogey golfers and women.


One exception was in Lawrence, KS,  where he played with women now and then,  and ate lunch in the clubhouse inviting interaction with golfers.


I'll also say that when I worked for GCSAA, this subject was a bit touchy for some members.


Most of them worked too much to play anyway.


If I somehow got ownership of a course,  one condition of employment would be playing with some members at least a couple times a month.


And I realize that a lot of good supers would be pretty opposed to it.

[Tim_Weiman]

I don’t recall John Zimmers, now of Inverness and previously at Oakmont and Sand Ridge, played much if at all. As a superintendent, John is as good as it gets and has been a long time favorite of the USGA.


When the grow in at Sand Ridge was completed, the course was probably rated far too high by Golf Digest, but if I recall correctly, it was rated #6 on conditioning, pretty remarkable for a new course. Cynics will say that Zimmers had a near perfect property to work with - it is adjacent to the Best Sand company mine - but I think it would be unfair not to credit Zimmers, a non golfer.

[Thomas Dai]

If I somehow got ownership of a course, one condition of employment would be playing with some members at least a couple times a month.

Well said Ken. Same with the Pro and the GM/Secretary a well. A spread of members though, not always the same members.
atb

[Anthony_Nysse]

I don’t recall John Zimmers, now of Inverness and previously at Oakmont and Sand Ridge, played much if at all. As a superintendent, John is as good as it gets and has been a long time favorite of the USGA.


When the grow in at Sand Ridge was completed, the course was probably rated far too high by Golf Digest, but if I recall correctly, it was rated #6 on conditioning, pretty remarkable for a new course. Cynics will say that Zimmers had a near perfect property to work with - it is adjacent to the Best Sand company mine - but I think it would be unfair not to credit Zimmers, a non golfer.

Absolutely factual. Some of the most revered, well respected Supts in our industry don't play golf much but are walking the course every day & eat, sleep & breath turfgrass, having a large tree of formers Assistants that are very successful on their own. 


There also seems to be a growing list of Supts who abuse the privilege to play golf & do it so much that it costs them with their clubs, especially with conditions are in question.

[John Kavanaugh]

I had a former Superintendent that took the first tee time every Saturday morning under the guise he would meet the members. Seems like if he had waited a half hour he would have actually talked to someone. Once during a member event he created a tee time before everyone else. Unfortunately for both of us I was the unofficial first time he butted in on. I waited every shot, not so much because he was slow, I just made sure to play so fast that I had to wait out of spite.


It’s common sense not to play where you work.

[Kyle Harris]

I had a former Superintendent that took the first tee time every Saturday morning under the guise he would meet the members. Seems like if he had waited a half hour he would have actually talked to someone. Once during a member event he created a tee time before everyone else. Unfortunately for both of us I was the unofficial first time he butted in on. I waited every shot, not so much because he was slow, I just made sure to play so fast that I had to wait out of spite.


It’s common sense not to play where you work.

Utter rubbish and you know it.

[John Kavanaugh]

I had a former Superintendent that took the first tee time every Saturday morning under the guise he would meet the members. Seems like if he had waited a half hour he would have actually talked to someone. Once during a member event he created a tee time before everyone else. Unfortunately for both of us I was the unofficial first time he butted in on. I waited every shot, not so much because he was slow, I just made sure to play so fast that I had to wait out of spite.


It’s common sense not to play where you work.

Utter rubbish and you know it.

Kyle,


I knew you would read this and would not have typed it if not true. The closest thing to rubbish is the part about me playing fast enough to push someone. It wasn’t easy.

[Ben Hollerbach]

I was a member at a club where it was not uncommon for the Super to play on Saturday mornings. At first I thought it was unusual, but over time the value in it became apparent. He would try to play with a wide range of members and would ask them a lot of questions about the course. At the same time he would take the opportunity to discuss with the members the why behind his practices and was very good at building support within the membership for his work.

At the height of the summer, when our course had tinges of browns and light greens, members understood that the color of the grass was not a perfect indicator as to the playable quality and if they wanted wall to wall green they had to accept it being like a sponge. During the winter, when the greens needed to be tarped in the middle of the afternoon prior to a cold night the members knew that practice was for the best health of the greens and important to how they rebounded in the spring.

I'd equate playing with the super to eating a meal with the chef. To often the feedback they receive is not firsthand and not while someone is enjoying their work. But give someone the opportunity to have that experience and the benefit to both parties can be very valuable.

[Charlie Goerges]

It’s common sense not to play where you work.

I'll pass that advice on to the thousands of teens working at a course in order to play golf.

[John Kavanaugh]

“This will also be the first week I will be playing golf with members on Saturday at 7:50am.  This tee time allows me to see the course from a golfers perspective, and correct many last minute details before you and your guests play.  If you have any questions regarding the course, or would just like to fill your foursome, please call the golf shop and let them know you would like to play with me.  Take Care.”

From one of 2058 emails I still have from the club.


 

[Charlie Goerges]

“This will also be the first week I will be playing golf with members on Saturday at 7:50am.  This tee time allows me to see the course from a golfers perspective, and correct many last minute details before you and your guests play.  If you have any questions regarding the course, or would just like to fill your foursome, please call the golf shop and let them know you would like to play with me.  Take Care.”

From one of 2058 emails I still have from the club.

The impudence! The audacity! The unmitigated gall!

[Tommy Williamsen]

The super at Ballyhack is the best one I ever have had. He plays golf sparingly and only to see how the course plays. When I saw him on the course, he made it a point to ask me how the course played. He wanted feedback from a variety of players.

[jeffwarne]

“This will also be the first week I will be playing golf with members on Saturday at 7:50am.  This tee time allows me to see the course from a golfers perspective, and correct many last minute details before you and your guests play.  If you have any questions regarding the course, or would just like to fill your foursome, please call the golf shop and let them know you would like to play with me.  Take Care.”

From one of 2058 emails I still have from the club.

The impudence! The audacity! The unmitigated gall!

LOL. The whole thread is pretty hunorous and revealing.
Generally the people who complain that they get too many emails they get are the same ones that show up to play with three guests during the Club Championship...


On topic, there are great Supers who play quite a bit of golf, and great Supers who don't.
There are a probably a few who are great fisherman, hunters or fathers too.
And of course many clubs don't know what they've got till it's gone, especially if they're worrying about how an employee allocates his time 24 hours a day as opposed to how he's performing.
The same as there are mediocre Supers and Pros, there are also mediocre clubs.

[Jim Sherma]

I think what's important is not so much that they play, as that they have an understanding as to what makes for a good playing surface. Decisions should be made to further the desired attributes: firmness of greens and fairways, heights of cut, presentation of bunkers, sharpness of edges and cut transition, etc. A superintendent's job (one of many admittedly) is to know what they want the course to play like and then help put the team into a position to succeed through oversight, training and holding people accountable. A lot of budget and time gets wasted through lack of proactive decision making and poor oversight. 

[Kalen Braley]

I'd be very surprised if there is a super who doesn't golf at least a few rounds per year.....and at one point in time, (perhaps before becoming one), played a decent amount of golf. (30+ rounds/year)

[John Kavanaugh]

There is no value in a superintendent asking his members what they think unless he has a new excuse he needs to cash.

[Charlie Goerges]

I'd be very surprised if there is a super who doesn't golf at least a few rounds per year.....and at one point in time, (perhaps before becoming one), played a decent amount of golf. (30+ rounds/year)

That's certainly true the vast majority of the time. But there is already one example on this thread of someone the exact opposite. I mean Seth Raynor didn't really play golf...

[Tim Martin]

There will always be that faction of club members that equate an employee playing(excepting Mondays at a private) as not working without giving any consideration to the upside. That’s the way of the world.

[Ed Brzezowski]

There will always be that faction of club members that equate an employee playing(excepting Mondays at a private) as not working without giving any consideration to the upside. That’s the way of the world.

We give our super a membership as part of his compensation. Takes away the " taking up a member spot ". And allows him to interact with members on the course. Overall it had lead to some good discussions and good course changes.

[John Kavanaugh]

I wish my old super had a membership. Members can’t tee off until 8am. Members can’t declare a 7:50am time for the “better good”.


Note: The guy was super young and didn’t yet know the unwritten rules of Asstown.

[Kyle Harris]

Do only the best musicians know how to read music?

No, of course not. But most do at least have some way of communicating what they are playing in a manner that other people can understand.

So it goes will golf and superintendents. I've never been able to detach myself enough from my work such that playing the golf course was anything but work. Enjoyable all the same - just like my work.

[William_G]

I think what's important is not so much that they play, as that they have an understanding as to what makes for a good playing surface. Decisions should be made to further the desired attributes: firmness of greens and fairways, heights of cut, presentation of bunkers, sharpness of edges and cut transition, etc. A superintendent's job (one of many admittedly) is to know what they want the course to play like and then help put the team into a position to succeed through oversight, training and holding people accountable. A lot of budget and time gets wasted through lack of proactive decision making and poor oversight.

yes!

[Thomas Dai]

Course set-up is important and as such it is important that the person in charge of course set-up understands how every level of player of whichever gender whether they be bombers or older, less physically strong folks or somewhere in between plays the course. The game should be fun not boring nor a slog and the set-up and thus the Head Greenkeepers understanding of play at his/her course should reflect this.
Can this really be achieved properly from an office or even from occasional viewing from atop a machine likely in the early morning when relatively few players are out playing? I suggest not.
Atb

[John Kavanaugh]

You don’t need to create a shot to see the result.