Sets of tees, how many are too many?

[Rob Marshall]

Niall,
Many golfers are going to Top Golf.  It’s fun. 


Honestly who cares if there are more starting points for holes on golf courses.  I think most golf architect’s egos can handle it. 


What I do think is silly is when there are three sets of markers each say five yards apart.  Makes little sense.   

Mark, your last statement is why I started the thread.

[Tim Gavrich]

I played the East Course at BallenIsles in Palm Beach Gardens earlier this year. It had 9 sets of tee markers.

[Jim_Coleman]

   Is the pendulum swinging back in favor of RTJ Jr. 1950’s runway tees? Gil Hanse just built a 50 yard long tee on Rolling Green’s par 3 10th that allows for shots from 275 - 225. Then there’s a 30 yard long tee right in front of that one that allows for shots from 210 - 180. That’s 80 yards of straight teeing area that will accommodate 3 sets of tees. Then there’s a normal sized forward tee off to the right from 165 - 150. Vintage Jones I’d say.

[Joe Hancock]

Honestly who cares if there are more starting points for holes on golf courses.  I think most golf architect’s egos can handle it. 

I do. Topography doesn’t always allow for easy construction of more tees at prescribed distances. Forcing tees on a severe upslope, downslope or sidelope is difficult at best, and dangerous for golfers and maintenance staff at worst.


When I first started working on a golf course in 1977, there was one set of tees at 6200 yards, and another at 5100 yards. The course was full, no one was asking for more sets of tees, and somehow people found a way to enjoy it. Architects seem to think golfers know what’s best for themselves when they tell the  architects what they need.


A superintendent friend of mine quipped, after being asked by his committee to place another set of tees on the course, “It’s already like a damn gumball machine out there!” I’m with Niall on this one. Too much clutter in a never-ending attempt to make all golfers happy and fairly treated.

[Garland Bayley]

2

[Ken Moum]

Niall,
Many golfers are going to Top Golf.  It’s fun. 


Honestly who cares if there are more starting points for holes on golf courses.  I think most golf architect’s egos can handle it. 


What I do think is silly is when there are three sets of markers each say five yards apart.  Makes little sense.   

Mark, your last statement is why I started the thread.

Since when did logic have a place in golf?  😁


For example,  a friend who is 80 and completely unwilling to play forward tees, told me about a round last week in Flagstaff.


His wife played red tees and he played gold... there's 120 yards difference in those tees. What the he'll do they need two sets of markers on every hole?

[Mark_Fine]

Joe and others,
As I said earlier, why should only high end courses like Sebonack and Congaree be the only ones with no formal tees??  They can set out just one set of markers or ten if they wanted or none for that matter and let players start holes where they would like. 

[Tim Martin]

Joe and others,
As I said earlier, why should only high end courses like Sebonack and Congaree be the only ones with no formal tees??  They can set out just one set of markers or ten if they wanted or none for that matter and let players start holes where they would like.

I wonder if the same formula that works at a high end private club would work at a daily fee course? Allowing  players to start from wherever they like seems a recipe for disaster in getting players around both quickly and without incident as structure in teeing areas is inherent to the public model. I know that it’s worked at Bandon at the original Sheep Ranch but that’s not the type of public course I’m talking about.

[A.G._Crockett]

Joe and others,
As I said earlier, why should only high end courses like Sebonack and Congaree be the only ones with no formal tees??  They can set out just one set of markers or ten if they wanted or none for that matter and let players start holes where they would like.

One obvious problem would be course and slope ratings for the purposes of posting scores and maintaining accurate indexes.  An additional problem would be games with multiple groups.  And so on…

[Mark_Fine]

A.G.,
I stated on an earlier thread about tees, the technology exists but is not yet widespread that an app on your phone will calculate slope and course ratings from your starting point.  Kind of like map my ride if you ever used that 

[A.G._Crockett]

A.G.,
I stated on an earlier thread about tees, the technology exists but is not yet widespread that an app on your phone will calculate slope and course ratings from your starting point.  Kind of like map my ride if you ever used that 

Are the calculations in that app acceptable in GHIN?

[Mark_Fine]

A.G.,
I don’t know for sure but would presume so.  I know I play in Golf Association of Philadelphia golf tournaments and they come up with their own teeing locations etc for each event along with a slope and course rating for the day’s setup. Not sure what they use to do the calculations.

[archie_struthers]

 


Personally two is enough for me. Daily and forward 


If some really good players are looking for some more walk on back to the tips and have at it.


If you need one way up in the fairway , that would be my total

[Thomas Dai]

Is there not also a link between the number of tees and the maintenance regime adopted? Likely the more grass cut to fairway height (or nibbled away by grazing animals) the less forced carries and thus the less need for more tees?
atb

[A.G._Crockett]

A.G.,
I don’t know for sure but would presume so.  I know I play in Golf Association of Philadelphia golf tournaments and they come up with their own teeing locations etc for each event along with a slope and course rating for the day’s setup. Not sure what they use to do the calculations.

Mark,


Understand that I have NO problem whatsoever with any golfer teeing up from anywhere they choose on any hole that they play. 


That said, I think I’m correct in saying that state golf associations expect posted scores to be from courses and tees that have been rated by one of their rating teams, and I’d be really surprised if the calculations of any app were acceptable.(Having never been a member (or played at) at a club with no tee markers, I have NO idea how that works for course and slope ratings and posting scores.)


As to tournaments, there is some latitude for the course setup.  If that is exceeded by a larger yardage change, I believe the USGA provides a worksheet for the committee to use to recalculate the course and slope ratings; the committee isn’t just making that up on their own.


None of this has anything to do with the original question of how many sets of tees there should be.  Just noting a problem with the idea of no tees on a site where there is pretty constant outcry about GHIN.

[Garland Bayley]

A.G.,
I stated on an earlier thread about tees, the technology exists but is not yet widespread that an app on your phone will calculate slope and course ratings from your starting point.  Kind of like map my ride if you ever used that 

Are the calculations in that app acceptable in GHIN?

The handicap regulation back when I read them provided a table for adjusting the ratings based on how much distance you deviated from the rated set of tees. So yes acceptable. I often posted about the possibility of such an app. Don't know what the 2019 regulations say. I got caught out at an event for finishing 13 holes and quitting in 95 degree heat planning to have my score posted to replace the last low score posted when I used to play golf a lot. Turns out the new regulations changed it to 14 holes for posting which I found out after no score was posted.

[Brian Finn]

   Is the pendulum swinging back in favor of RTJ Jr. 1950’s runway tees? Gil Hanse just built a 50 yard long tee on Rolling Green’s par 3 10th that allows for shots from 275 - 225. Then there’s a 30 yard long tee right in front of that one that allows for shots from 210 - 180. That’s 80 yards of straight teeing area that will accommodate 3 sets of tees. Then there’s a normal sized forward tee off to the right from 165 - 150. Vintage Jones I’d say.

Are runway tees being added to any other holes at Rolling Green? Are you aware of any other courses where similar runway tees have been added?  I imagine such a tee setup may make sense in specific circumstances, but one hole would hardly indicate a swing of the pendulum.

[Jim_Coleman]

   No, that’s the only one. I can’t imagine many have been built in the last 50 years anywhere. A bit surprising I thought. No, I’m sure it’s not a trend. Getting some positive reviews.

[Tim Gavrich]

   Is the pendulum swinging back in favor of RTJ Jr. 1950’s runway tees? Gil Hanse just built a 50 yard long tee on Rolling Green’s par 3 10th that allows for shots from 275 - 225. Then there’s a 30 yard long tee right in front of that one that allows for shots from 210 - 180. That’s 80 yards of straight teeing area that will accommodate 3 sets of tees. Then there’s a normal sized forward tee off to the right from 165 - 150. Vintage Jones I’d say.

Jim--


Maybe not precisely the narrow and arrow-straight runways RTJ, Wilson and von Hagge seemed to like, but there is definitely more of a free-form approach to teeing grounds nowadays. I was at PGA Frisco a couple of weeks ago and both courses had very expansive teeing areas that made almost every hole very flexible. This was especially true on Gil Hanse's East course, which eschewed laser-flat tee areas. In many spots, the space between your tee markers might have a couple of degrees of tilt in one direction or another.