[Matthew Lloyd]

To chime in on the pace of play…


Was part of a foursome on Saturday August 3 mid-morning. We never had to wait and were never pushed - and played a relaxed round. It took us exactly 4 hours. But we didn’t hurry once and tried to take in the course and environs. It was an ideal walk and we loved the course.


Skill level in the group included two excellent golfers, one above average golfer (me) and one ultra casual golfer who plays 3-4 rounds per year but loves to see new places. We were all able to enjoy the course equally.


I found personally that having one par five really built the anticipation - especially when placed right before a drivable par 4.


Feel lucky to have played the course in its first month of open play.

[jeffwarne]

It’s America Tom!  4 extra shots at 5 minutes per adds up to 20 minutes.

By coincidence, for something unrelated, the superintendent of Sedge Valley called me this afternoon.


I asked him about pace of play and he said it's been outstanding.  They went with 12-minute tee times this year to hold back a little of the wear and tear on new grass, and he reported that there really haven't been hold-ups through the stretch of short holes from 5-8, or almost anywhere on the course.  The one exception is that people who drive it right on 16 take a long time to sort out their approach shots.

It is incredibly common for people to conflate "pace of play" with "no waiting".
I'd be curious to know if they have records of how long rounds actually took, rather than anecdotal reports of less hold ups.
12 minute tee times are wonderful and no doubt reduce "waiting" and leave a great amount of wiggle room for management.
BUT, sometimes the lack of immediate pressure from behind, or the loss of sight of the group in front, leads a group to play a bit more slowly, especially at a once in a lifetime destination.
They simply lose track of time.
Our slowest rounds occur on our slowest(as in least amount of play) days-usually in the fall or early spring.
On a busy July/August day, pace is brisk as awareness of peer pressure from behind, and sight of the group in front keeps people moving.

[Tom_Doak]

It is incredibly common for people to conflate "pace of play" with "no waiting".
I'd be curious to know if they have records of how long rounds actually took, rather than anecdotal reports of less hold ups.
12 minute tee times are wonderful and no doubt reduce "waiting" and leave a great amount of wiggle room for management.
BUT, sometimes the lack of immediate pressure from behind, or the loss of sight of the group in front, leads a group to play a bit more slowly, especially at a once in a lifetime destination.
They simply lose track of time.
Our slowest rounds occur on our slowest(as in least amount of play) days-usually in the fall or early spring.
On a busy July/August day, pace is brisk as awareness of peer pressure from behind, and sight of the group in front keeps people moving.

Jeff:


All true, but isn't that a "distinction without a difference?"  Pace of play is important when you have a lot of people out there, but not so much otherwise.


I can assure you they are keeping track of how long the rounds are taking.  The only number I've heard [from three sources now] is "four hours," which is vague enough that I haven't taken it literally.

[jeffwarne]

It is incredibly common for people to conflate "pace of play" with "no waiting".
I'd be curious to know if they have records of how long rounds actually took, rather than anecdotal reports of less hold ups.
12 minute tee times are wonderful and no doubt reduce "waiting" and leave a great amount of wiggle room for management.
BUT, sometimes the lack of immediate pressure from behind, or the loss of sight of the group in front, leads a group to play a bit more slowly, especially at a once in a lifetime destination.
They simply lose track of time.
Our slowest rounds occur on our slowest(as in least amount of play) days-usually in the fall or early spring.
On a busy July/August day, pace is brisk as awareness of peer pressure from behind, and sight of the group in front keeps people moving.

Jeff:


All true, but isn't that a "distinction without a difference?"  Pace of play is important when you have a lot of people out there, but not so much otherwise.


I can assure you they are keeping track of how long the rounds are taking.  The only number I've heard [from three sources now] is "four hours," which is vague enough that I haven't taken it literally.

It can be a distinction without a difference yes, and of course rounds without backups are a joyous thing.
How long the rounds take in real time would seem essential at a resort, where time for lunch has to be taken into account, to make sure the player can comfortably arrive for his second tee time of the day.


In our slowest shoulder season times, we still need a reasonable pace of play as we are trying to run lean on caddies, to convince the few that stick around in the shoulder season, to continue to stick around.
An 8:30 shoulder season visiting fourball, enjoying their day out, under minimal stress from groups behind, that returns at 1:45 due to an uncrowded morning can throw a wrench into scheduling for caddies when trying to run lean and spin them into what might be a busy afternoon.
Of course that's simply (mis) management on our part .
There is no question that the fastest rounds by walking 4 balls on a large hilly property(3:45-4 hours) occur on busy days with pressure and visibility from behind, and ever present staff assisting with pace.

[Bill Seitz]

As for Sedge Valley I applaud the concept and the execution.  Biggest impression is that excepting the knob to knob and slightly downhill one shotters, I felt like I just played two dozen uphill holes.   Hopefully a more thoughtful review is to follow.

I would love to hear more about this. I didn't have that perception at all from when I was there last year. Other than a few holes, if others are uphill on the approach, it seemed pretty slight to me. Maybe being really hot conditions amplified the impression.

Interesting, and I am trying to think whether Michael is right.


Partly it depends on where you are driving the ball.


The holes that DO have uphill approaches are 1, 3, 14, and 16.


On many of the others, if you hit a good tee shot you're pretty level with the green, but if you pull it left on 2, or fan one right on 4 [or 6], or hit it over the plateau on 10, or hit a short tee shot on 12, or go left on 18, all of those approach shots become uphill.  I've never really thought about it like that.

I had uphill approaches on 2 (from the right bunker after landing just left center of the fairway), 3, 4 (from the right), 14, and 16.  12 felt a little uphill from the tee, and 11, I had an uphill lie, but not sure the shot was really uphill.  1 actually felt pretty flat in my recollection.

[Bill Seitz]

...the questions I'm most interested in are:


1.  Were people bothered by the inclusion of only one par-5 hole, or were they not missed?  And,


2.  How long did it take to play vs. the other courses at the resort?

Not bothered at all.  I adjusted my expectation for score going in (I'm usually happy breaking 80, set my goal for Sedge at 75, and shot 70), so I had an idea what to expect, but didn't feel like anything was lacking after the round.  We played the back tee markers, but not all the way back on the tee boxes.


I can't recall how long it took us to play, but it was under four hours, and would have been much faster if we hadn't caught another group around 11-12 that were not playing fast. 

[Stephen Davis]

I just posted on the Lido thread about my experience there. I figured I would do the same here. I just came back from my first trip to see Sedge Valley and I loved the place. It felt so wonderful and intimate, much like the way walking a round at Bandon Trails feels. The holes were wonderfully imaginative fun and exactly what the resort needed. I would be shocked if it wasn't the resounding favorite course at the resort (excluding Lido, but maybe even including it because I think people are going to be much more divided in their feelings on Lido).


Certain parts of the property felt so magical and if I had the course to myself, I would find myself just hanging out and hitting different shots all day. It is a very comfortable and easy walk, which is very important considering the big walks of Sand Valley and Mammoth Dunes. It is by no means an easy course, despite it being "shorter". In fact, it is a much more exacting test than either Sand Valley and especially Mammoth Dunes. That being said, it is a treat to play and I preferred it over the other two courses by a very wide margin. Kudos to Tom and the Renaissance team for building something extremely special.

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