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Brian Finn

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Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« on: October 10, 2023, 03:58:56 PM »
I was fortunate to recently spend a day at Old Barnwell, going around their new course twice.  Having tracked the progress of the build (mainly via Instagram and Twitter), and knowing the design pedigree of Brian Schneider and Blake Conant, I went in expecting there would be plenty about the course I would enjoy.  However, my taste in recent years has skewed heavily toward much older designs, particularly those on the UK links and heath, and I haven’t seen many of the heralded new course designs of the past few years.  So, I guess I approached with high hopes, but healthy skepticism (for lack of a better description).  While I am not familiar (or observant) enough with the course to feel comfortable doing a full hole by hole tour, I did want to share several of my takeaways after a couple of plays.

Upon arrival, you walk around the small, temporary clubhouse, and you are immediately struck by the scale of the property. Standing on the tightly mown area between the clubhouse and the 18th green, you can see out across at least two-thirds of the golf course, which is routed across and through significant sand ridges, and on the outskirts of the course, some stately pine trees. To anyone interested in course architecture, your mind is immediately engaged (if not almost overwhelmed) by the many cool features, both natural and man-made, visible from that spot.  At this early point, it is perfectly clear that you are in for an interesting day of golf.

In terms of the routing, I am merely a gca hobbyist, but all the elements that I typically seek could be found at Old Barnwell. Despite covering a seemingly large expanse (total property is 575 acres, but I am unsure of the golf course footprint), green to tee transitions are about as short as I think they could be.  We played the white tees (6,520 yards, one up from 7,095-yard tips), which I imagine will get the most use, and the transitions were mostly effortless.  With one or two exceptions, elevation change develops gradually, so the walk itself was far from strenuous.  It also seemed like the architects put the land to very good use, in terms of maximizing its potential.  The direction of holes was constantly changing, with two different three hole stretches in the same direction.  5, 6, and 7, each a challenging and varied par 4, play gradually from higher to lower ground, across most of the property.  Then, 16, 17, and 18, a par 5, 3, and 4, play from a corner of the course, over and across a ridge, all the way back up to the clubhouse. 

The flow or pacing of the course was quite good – it felt natural and unforced.  It made sense to me.  After a 5, 4, 4, 3 start, there are six consecutive par 4s, but I only realized that after my second round.  Later, there are back-to-back par 5s at 15 and 16, two holes which seemingly couldn’t be more different.  The listed par of the course is 73, with only three par 3s, and four par 5s.  The front has only one par 3 and one par 5, while the back has two 3s and three 5s. 

The variety of holes felt nearly optimal to me.  From the white tees, the 4th hole plays 165 slightly downhill to a medium sized green, sloping from back to front.  The 11th plays 210 slightly downhill to an enormous green with a massive ridge in the middle, and additional bold internal contours.  Many would consider it a par 3.5.  The 17th plays 120, uphill to a small, well-guarded green, with some room to miss and still scramble for par.  All three play in totally different directions.
 
The par 5s include one true half-par hole (the first, 490 from the whites, slightly downhill), another reachable, but full 5 (the 12th, 505 yards to a deep and highly contoured green), and two full three shot holes (15th at 565 yards and 16th at 515 yards uphill).  Only the first seems a definite go in two, and only 15 seems a guaranteed layup, so doubt and temptation come into play throughout. 

The par 4s include at least three half par holes, and tremendous variety in strategy.  Hole distances (from the white tees) range from 245 to 425, and when considering wind direction, natural features, bunkering, and greens, no two holes are very similar.  For me (mid-length, mid-cap), only 3 or 4 par 4s were definite drivers off the tee, and a couple almost certainly were not.  There are decisions to be made off every tee. 

This brings me to what impressed me most about the course.  The course is extremely playable for virtually all skill levels, with wide fairways and plenty of room to miss around most greens.  However, bunker placement and size, combined with green contours and surrounding features require the better player to attack from the correct position to have legitimate chance for birdie.  I believe this is essentially what most of the best architects aim for, so it is a credit to Brian and Blake, and everyone who helped them build Old Barnwell. 

The greens are mostly very large and challenging.  Just as it is easy to hit lots of fairways here, but still have very tough approach shots, it is not unusual to hit a green in regulation but have a decent chance at three putting.  There is a nice combination of big bold contours and slope used in the greens design.  I found them to be a lot of fun to putt on, even with multiple three putts.  I usually felt my score on a hole reflected the quality of my play, for better or worse. 

Finally, I must comment on the bunkers, which are large and numerous, but far from excessive.  The positioning, both in fairways and around greens seemed entirely appropriate (in terms of the expansive fairways and greens) and strategic.  As I said at the outset, the scale of the course is immense.  The fairway bunkers are in line with this scale and used to force sometimes difficult decisions from the tee.  Greenside bunkers are similarly strategic, presenting different challenges depending on the day’s hole location.  Virtually all greens have ample room to miss and still have reasonable chance at saving par.  The style of the bunkers varies somewhat, with the most interesting bunkers having rolled up grass faces around the entire edge (not just the side facing the green, as you would see on several golden age courses).   

While I wanted to post about the course itself, it would be wrong not to acknowledge the unique culture that is already being established at Old Barnwell.  As has been documented here and elsewhere, founder Nick Schreiber, his team, and the membership seem all-in on making it a place for all players, with focus on a youth caddie program, sponsoring up and coming female players, partnering with HBCUs, and creating opportunities for young people in maintenance and agronomy. 

Hopefully, as more people visit and play, we will get plenty of discussion about the course and club.  I hope to visit again in the not-too-distant future.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2023, 04:15:09 PM by Brian Finn »
New for '24: Monifieth x2, Montrose x2, Panmure, Carnoustie x3, Scotscraig, Kingsbarns, Elie, Dumbarnie, Lundin, Belvedere, The Loop x2, Forest Dunes, Arcadia Bluffs x2, Kapalua Plantation, Windsong Farm, Minikahda...

jeffwarne

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Re: Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2023, 09:12:31 AM »
Great summary Brian.


I haven't seen it in finished form, but I played the "Upper Loop", the 7 holes that were temporarily open last winter, many times.


Other than my enormous respect for Brian Schneider and Blake Conant, I'll save my on course commentary for November, when I have a chance to see/play the completed course. I did walk all the holes in May in various stages or construction/grow in.
The work I saw was outstanding, as are the limited pictures I've been sent, but again, I'll save detailed comments for later.


I will note your comments about the culture.
As early as last year with 7 hole Upper Loop preview play, there was a strong sense of club culture and cameraderie, almost exaggerated by the small temporary clubhouse.
Strangers paired up and became friends, and there always some craic to be had before, during and after in the small clubhouse/pro shop. 2 balls became four balls, three balls joined four balls etc., and people simply enjoyed the game and each other's company, with staff from all different departments often joining in.
Thus far, Nick has absolutely nailed it, and has huge plans to make it even more inclusive with the programs you mentioned.
While the combination of Brian and Blake on the course were what initially attracted me to the project, it was Nick's vision/community involvement and the tremendous culture created by the staff that convinced me to be a part of the team as "Winter Pro" from November-April.
I hope to be able to contribute at least as much as I have benefitted from the people and the project.
Putting my money where my mouth is, I believe in the project enough to have bought my son a National Membership as a college graduation gift, as I look forward to seeing him enjoy the club and culture hopefully as much as I have enjoyed my longtime National (now resident)membership at Palmetto.


« Last Edit: October 11, 2023, 06:42:32 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Craig Disher

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Re: Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2023, 03:55:07 PM »
Brian,Very good observations and a great introduction to the course. Did any of the features resonate with any of the classic courses you're familiar with? One that's immediately seenm is the diagonal berm running across the first hole. It could have been an old fence or overgrown stone wall that was left in place.

Brian Finn

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Re: Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2023, 05:04:14 PM »
Brian,Very good observations and a great introduction to the course. Did any of the features resonate with any of the classic courses you're familiar with? One that's immediately seenm is the diagonal berm running across the first hole. It could have been an old fence or overgrown stone wall that was left in place.
I am not particularly good at recalling every hole of every course any longer, but a few thoughts on this...

The berm on 1 (and another behind 10 green, I believe) reminded me immediately of CC of Charleston's 15th.  I also saw a hole recently in Southern Wales (though I can't seem to recall the course or hole!) with similar berms.

The view across (from 11 green, maybe?) to the 16th green gave me a memory of a couple of greens (the 2nd and one other) at Cleeve Hill.  The way the green was set into the hillside, with a bank built up around a portion of the green was very similar.

Some of the bunkering reminded me of Plainfield, which is among my favorite Ross courses.  Other bunker complexes looked like they would fit right in on Sunningdale Old...

...and that brings me to the most notable similarities I felt.  While I thought Old Barnwell was fully its own course, I did have flashes of various British heathland courses, ranging from Swinley Forest to Walton Heath Old.  Not necessarily precise features that looked plucked from one of those courses, but just a general feel and look of the course.  The stretch from 5 through 7, while more open than Swinley for example, felt like it could be a run across the heath.  Forced to "pick a lane" I would say the course had an awful lot of heathland characteristics.  Particularly when native areas grow in and the course matures, I imagine it will resemble these courses. 

But as I run through different holes, I keep thinking of different places...for example, I just realized the 12th green felt a lot like the first par 5 (2nd hole?) at Royal Aberdeen.  Some other holes felt like they could easily be at Prairie Dunes, which remains one of my all time favorites anywhere. 

That, and some of my other comparisons, may be a stretch, but to sum up, the course definitely had many characteristics that reminded me of my favorite links, heathland, and American classic courses.  I'd love to hear from you and others what comparisons you might make. 
« Last Edit: October 11, 2023, 05:06:07 PM by Brian Finn »
New for '24: Monifieth x2, Montrose x2, Panmure, Carnoustie x3, Scotscraig, Kingsbarns, Elie, Dumbarnie, Lundin, Belvedere, The Loop x2, Forest Dunes, Arcadia Bluffs x2, Kapalua Plantation, Windsong Farm, Minikahda...

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2023, 09:00:26 PM »
I was fortunate to recently spend a day at Old Barnwell, going around their new course twice.  Having tracked the progress of the build (mainly via Instagram and Twitter), and knowing the design pedigree of Brian Schneider and Blake Conant, I went in expecting there would be plenty about the course I would enjoy.  However, my taste in recent years has skewed heavily toward much older designs, particularly those on the UK links and heath, and I haven’t seen many of the heralded new course designs of the past few years.  So, I guess I approached with high hopes, but healthy skepticism (for lack of a better description).  While I am not familiar (or observant) enough with the course to feel comfortable doing a full hole by hole tour, I did want to share several of my takeaways after a couple of plays.

Upon arrival, you walk around the small, temporary clubhouse, and you are immediately struck by the scale of the property. Standing on the tightly mown area between the clubhouse and the 18th green, you can see out across at least two-thirds of the golf course, which is routed across and through significant sand ridges, and on the outskirts of the course, some stately pine trees. To anyone interested in course architecture, your mind is immediately engaged (if not almost overwhelmed) by the many cool features, both natural and man-made, visible from that spot.  At this early point, it is perfectly clear that you are in for an interesting day of golf.

In terms of the routing, I am merely a gca hobbyist, but all the elements that I typically seek could be found at Old Barnwell. Despite covering a seemingly large expanse (total property is 575 acres, but I am unsure of the golf course footprint), green to tee transitions are about as short as I think they could be.  We played the white tees (6,520 yards, one up from 7,095-yard tips), which I imagine will get the most use, and the transitions were mostly effortless.  With one or two exceptions, elevation change develops gradually, so the walk itself was far from strenuous.  It also seemed like the architects put the land to very good use, in terms of maximizing its potential.  The direction of holes was constantly changing, with two different three hole stretches in the same direction.  5, 6, and 7, each a challenging and varied par 4, play gradually from higher to lower ground, across most of the property.  Then, 16, 17, and 18, a par 5, 3, and 4, play from a corner of the course, over and across a ridge, all the way back up to the clubhouse. 

The flow or pacing of the course was quite good – it felt natural and unforced.  It made sense to me.  After a 5, 4, 4, 3 start, there are six consecutive par 4s, but I only realized that after my second round.  Later, there are back-to-back par 5s at 15 and 16, two holes which seemingly couldn’t be more different.  The listed par of the course is 73, with only three par 3s, and four par 5s.  The front has only one par 3 and one par 5, while the back has two 3s and three 5s. 

The variety of holes felt nearly optimal to me.  From the white tees, the 4th hole plays 165 slightly downhill to a medium sized green, sloping from back to front.  The 11th plays 210 slightly downhill to an enormous green with a massive ridge in the middle, and additional bold internal contours.  Many would consider it a par 3.5.  The 17th plays 120, uphill to a small, well-guarded green, with some room to miss and still scramble for par.  All three play in totally different directions.
 
The par 5s include one true half-par hole (the first, 490 from the whites, slightly downhill), another reachable, but full 5 (the 12th, 505 yards to a deep and highly contoured green), and two full three shot holes (15th at 565 yards and 16th at 515 yards uphill).  Only the first seems a definite go in two, and only 15 seems a guaranteed layup, so doubt and temptation come into play throughout. 

The par 4s include at least three half par holes, and tremendous variety in strategy.  Hole distances (from the white tees) range from 245 to 425, and when considering wind direction, natural features, bunkering, and greens, no two holes are very similar.  For me (mid-length, mid-cap), only 3 or 4 par 4s were definite drivers off the tee, and a couple almost certainly were not.  There are decisions to be made off every tee. 

This brings me to what impressed me most about the course.  The course is extremely playable for virtually all skill levels, with wide fairways and plenty of room to miss around most greens.  However, bunker placement and size, combined with green contours and surrounding features require the better player to attack from the correct position to have legitimate chance for birdie.  I believe this is essentially what most of the best architects aim for, so it is a credit to Brian and Blake, and everyone who helped them build Old Barnwell. 

The greens are mostly very large and challenging.  Just as it is easy to hit lots of fairways here, but still have very tough approach shots, it is not unusual to hit a green in regulation but have a decent chance at three putting.  There is a nice combination of big bold contours and slope used in the greens design.  I found them to be a lot of fun to putt on, even with multiple three putts.  I usually felt my score on a hole reflected the quality of my play, for better or worse. 

Finally, I must comment on the bunkers, which are large and numerous, but far from excessive.  The positioning, both in fairways and around greens seemed entirely appropriate (in terms of the expansive fairways and greens) and strategic.  As I said at the outset, the scale of the course is immense.  The fairway bunkers are in line with this scale and used to force sometimes difficult decisions from the tee.  Greenside bunkers are similarly strategic, presenting different challenges depending on the day’s hole location.  Virtually all greens have ample room to miss and still have reasonable chance at saving par.  The style of the bunkers varies somewhat, with the most interesting bunkers having rolled up grass faces around the entire edge (not just the side facing the green, as you would see on several golden age courses).   

While I wanted to post about the course itself, it would be wrong not to acknowledge the unique culture that is already being established at Old Barnwell.  As has been documented here and elsewhere, founder Nick Schreiber, his team, and the membership seem all-in on making it a place for all players, with focus on a youth caddie program, sponsoring up and coming female players, partnering with HBCUs, and creating opportunities for young people in maintenance and agronomy. 

Hopefully, as more people visit and play, we will get plenty of discussion about the course and club.  I hope to visit again in the not-too-distant future.


Brian,


Thanks for your write up. I’m sure Nick, Brian and Blake will appreciate your comments.


Old Barnwell is both a club with a unique mission and a golf course. I was attracted to Nick’s vision and was immediately impressed with the property when clearing was done but otherwise it was still just dirt.


I’m looking forward to spending every February and March there each year and to rehabilitating my golf game that suffered badly during my time in Houston.


I also look forward to meeting more of the members and visitors. Thanks again for your observations about the property and the finished course.
Tim Weiman

Brian Finn

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Re: Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2023, 12:45:11 PM »
With The Fried Egg hosting an event today, and many others starting to see Old Barnwell, I'm bumping this to hopefully get more thoughts and discussion going.
New for '24: Monifieth x2, Montrose x2, Panmure, Carnoustie x3, Scotscraig, Kingsbarns, Elie, Dumbarnie, Lundin, Belvedere, The Loop x2, Forest Dunes, Arcadia Bluffs x2, Kapalua Plantation, Windsong Farm, Minikahda...

Matt Gunter

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Re: Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2023, 01:09:30 PM »
While I will not be able to write as thorough of a write up as Brian did to start this thread, I'll offer a few thoughts.


I played the course for the first time last week and was extremely impressed by the work that Brian / Blake and team had done. A few thoughts and observations from me:
a) From a playability / enjoyability perspective, I thought that course was phenomenal. Short walks from green to tee. Use of the elevation / terrain on the property, but without making you march up and down it repeatedly. Fairways that welcome you, but approach shots that require accuracy.
b) I thought the course offered a great variety of holes. Short par 4's that give you a chance, but punish you if you don't execute. A great mix of par 3's and par 5's.
c) I really loved the way Blake + Brian used the natural terrain as much as possible and really tried to route the course around that. If they did move a lot of dirt, it certainly did not feel that way.


Overall, I left going "I cannot wait to get back here." In addition, the atmosphere -- even in the temporary clubhouse -- was great. I look forward to seeing others' comments who have a more keen eye than I, but for me it is a great experience.


Matt

Rob Marshall

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Re: Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2023, 05:32:34 PM »
If I was moving to Charleston I would do the National membership. It’s a pretty good value. I just won’t have the opportunity to use it enough.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Patrick Collins

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Re: Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2023, 05:52:47 PM »
Thank you for the introduction of the thread Brian! I was fortunate enough to spend a day on property about two weeks ago and walked 36 holes. The temporary clubhouse was charming and everyone there was super welcoming and eager to share what they've been working on. Having a private club centered on inclusion feels like a breath of fresh air! As others have mentioned, Nick's mission and goal for the club are coming to life and will be great to see develop into the future.


To the golf;



Upon arrival the property feels grand and you overlook the vast majority of the course. There is a large ridge that will be filled in with native bisecting the course and the far off tree-lines almost indicate the back-end of the property from view (a few holes stick into the back middle of the tree-line). I too played the white tees, which I would assume will be the member's tees. As a long-hitter/fairly low handicap, while frustrating to partake in, it was awesome to see well placed bunkers took away a lot of my typical advantage. I drove the ball into numerous fairway bunkers in the first 18, including very well hidden traps on 6 & 10. This results in many tee boxes where you must be a bit more deliberate with direction to obtain the desired results. A common theme throughout the round is your line of attack with a handful of par fours teasing you into what may be the wrong line off the tee.


While it will be difficult to lose a golf ball, most holes have a portion of the fairway/side of the hole you must hit in order to access portions of the greens or pins. With the new greens this is likely even more important as they really don't have much "give" yet at this point. The greens were generally fair in size if not on the larger side. There was a good variety of "built-up" greens with tightly mown surroundings (1, 5, 6, 7, 9) and greens that seemed to sit a bit more naturally into the ground (8, 10, 17, 18).


With respect to the design/routing, the work is absolutely phenomenal and as I mentally go back through the rounds it gets better and better. There are three drivable par fours (2,9,14) and all still play as difficult pars. 14 may be the most unique par four I have ever played with a wasteland funneling into two bunkers with a large mound in front of it, once you crest the mound there is about 20 yards of fairway prior to the green. It drops off dramatically on the other three sides with multiple bunkers left and right along with a touch of fairway on the right hand side, all this packed into ~240 yards. 


Other high-light holes;


8 - I absolutely adored. The fairway cants in from both the left and right making it pretty difficult to miss. Your second shot carries either a set of two bunkers on the right or a lone bunker on the left. The green almost has two punch bowl sections, shaped like a peanut with an elevated knob indented into the left hand side. If you get to the proper level your chances of birdie are very high, if on the wrong level chance of three putt is very high.


10 - What appears to be a pretty straight forward flat/uphill dogleg left reveals itself once you walk out into the fairway. While you can see the pin/green from the tee box and may be willing to pinch a bit more off the corner, once you get to the inside of the dogleg there are a series of traps that were invisible from the teebox ranging from ~140 yards all the way into the green. Your true line is nearly 200 yards right of the pin you can see from the teeing ground. For the second shot you must play to the front right hand corner as the green and fairway leading up to it all funnel down to the left.


Hoping more get to check out the place and look forward to continued conversation surrounding the course!




« Last Edit: November 07, 2023, 03:11:53 AM by Patrick Collins »

Joe_Tucholski

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Re: Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2023, 11:35:00 AM »
Just got back from a trip to SC and played Old Barnwell yesterday.  Really enjoyed the course as others have said.  Greens are a ton of fun.  As Patrick said 10 is really cool for a hole that looks pretty pedestrian.  On the tee I was given a line and was like no way why would I do that.  I followed his advice and was just right of the hidden bunkers.  The two others in my group went more towards the green and were dead in bunkers.  We played another abbreviated loop (with some cross country golf - course was pretty empty as rain was forecast but never materialized) and played the green tees so took our tee shots over the bunkers.  Even if able to carry the bunkers playing out way to the right is the smart play.

Really love the width of the fairways but the bunkers require intelligent play.  I found a fairway bunker on every par 5 across our day on the course.  Off the fairway sometimes looked intimidating but right now the native areas are playable and lost balls isn't a thing we encountered.  Our group had lots of birdies and a pair of eagles on the day but I also made some bigger numbers due to challenges around the greens. 

A lot has been said about the culture with diversity and opportunities for those who might not otherwise have exposure to such a place.  I think that's a tough objective to achieve in the US with a high-end private golf club.  I wish the club luck and hope it can achieve its objectives while it grows.

Brian Finn

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Re: Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2023, 08:18:40 AM »
« Last Edit: December 06, 2023, 08:20:58 AM by Brian Finn »
New for '24: Monifieth x2, Montrose x2, Panmure, Carnoustie x3, Scotscraig, Kingsbarns, Elie, Dumbarnie, Lundin, Belvedere, The Loop x2, Forest Dunes, Arcadia Bluffs x2, Kapalua Plantation, Windsong Farm, Minikahda...

Ian Andrew

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Re: Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2023, 09:07:37 PM »
I was very fond of the routing. I liked using the valley as a diagonal or parallel hazard off the tee where wide expanse of fairway was steep enough to essentially become part of the hazard. It created a little confusion to where the ideal line was. I really liked this idea a lot. It baited you into a line that was often inside of where the smarter line existed.


Thought the 2nd hole was brilliant.


One treehouse question, is the line on the 13th over the bunkers. We didn't have a ball in good position and had an upper back right pin. We just weren't sure what we should have done. It was one of the instances where another play or multiple balls might have revealed more.

With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Ben Sims

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Re: Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2023, 12:04:03 PM »
I was very fond of the routing. I liked using the valley as a diagonal or parallel hazard off the tee where wide expanse of fairway was steep enough to essentially become part of the hazard. It created a little confusion to where the ideal line was. I really liked this idea a lot. It baited you into a line that was often inside of where the smarter line existed.


Thought the 2nd hole was brilliant.


One treehouse question, is the line on the 13th over the bunkers. We didn't have a ball in good position and had an upper back right pin. We just weren't sure what we should have done. It was one of the instances where another play or multiple balls might have revealed more.


Ian,


Just to be clear, you mean the medium length right to left par-4 with the hogsback concept?


If so, I’d singled out that hole as one that won’t garner a ton of discussion due to what comes immediately after, but should. I think it’s a wonderful hole.


I don’t think the line is over the left bunker, though there is a tiny hidden position 1AA near that side. Farther left and you’re in the poop, potentially under a petite maple tree. I watched a couple guys hit low running draws up the left side that stayed on the hogsback and that seems the best play. Running the ridge from way back in the fairway all the way into the green is just smart, and cool.

Joe_Tucholski

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Re: Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2023, 01:38:45 PM »
One treehouse question, is the line on the 13th over the bunkers. We didn't have a ball in good position and had an upper back right pin. We just weren't sure what we should have done. It was one of the instances where another play or multiple balls might have revealed more.


After playing 9 the guys in my group went to the toilet and grabbed water and incorrectly tee'd off on 13.  I hit it exactly where I wanted, just over the right edge of the left fairway bunker and ended up just right of the second bunker.  I think that's the perfect tee shot.  Unfortunately, when I got to the hole in the correct sequence, I hit one basically down the middle that ended up on the right side.  I was a bit short on the approach and had it roll way back (I had the same experience on the ocean course multiple times on the same trip).  If I hit the same shot from the left side of the fairway it would have been a good shot.


So, I definitely feel like the left side of 13 is where you need to be.


As a side note.  I noticed the course routing on old Barnwell's website indicates Renaissance Golf Designs.  It also doesn't look like what I recall (specifically 13/14).  I know Brian Schneider and Blake Conant both worked at Renaissance (and sounds like they still do a bit) but wondering how the branch off worked.  Just listened to parts of a feed the ball podcast and Blake talks about how they went and worked at Pinehurst for Tom under Angela even after breaking off on their own a bit.  It's been talked about a lot but who's name is on a course seems pretty subjective.  Almost like who gets final edit is who's name is on the course even if they aren't doing most of the work.

Blake Conant

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Re: Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2023, 02:53:10 PM »
One treehouse question, is the line on the 13th over the bunkers. We didn't have a ball in good position and had an upper back right pin. We just weren't sure what we should have done. It was one of the instances where another play or multiple balls might have revealed more.







Here's the hole and the new bunker scheme (yellow). Turning point is 275. There's a 50 yard gap between the two sets of bunkers on the left, which is a nice little honey hole if you can find it. You could fly the first bunker to get there, but everything left of the high point in the fairway slides that way, too. There's also 50 yards of fairway right of the first bunker that's for the taking, which would leave you ~140-150 into the green, but you'd want to hit less than driver to ensure you stay up top. I haven't seen many people hit less than driver on 13, but that may change as folks play the hole. The driving area really shrinks the further you get up the hole. As you can see, anything right of the centerline will slide down into the deep low on the right.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2023, 02:55:35 PM by Blake Conant »

Ian Andrew

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Re: Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2023, 03:03:25 PM »
Blake,

First up, really nice work. 

Thank you for the reply. My takeaway. Hit less. But continue to stay right. Stay up top. My partner disagreed. He thought aim at the left bunkers and be more aggressive on the line. The challenge of the approach justified the risk. It was a good point. So we were both left unsure.


That answers my question😊
« Last Edit: December 15, 2023, 03:10:33 PM by Ian Andrew »
With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Tim_Weiman

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Re: Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2023, 04:23:55 PM »
One treehouse question, is the line on the 13th over the bunkers. We didn't have a ball in good position and had an upper back right pin. We just weren't sure what we should have done. It was one of the instances where another play or multiple balls might have revealed more.







Here's the hole and the new bunker scheme (yellow). Turning point is 275. There's a 50 yard gap between the two sets of bunkers on the left, which is a nice little honey hole if you can find it. You could fly the first bunker to get there, but everything left of the high point in the fairway slides that way, too. There's also 50 yards of fairway right of the first bunker that's for the taking, which would leave you ~140-150 into the green, but you'd want to hit less than driver to ensure you stay up top. I haven't seen many people hit less than driver on 13, but that may change as folks play the hole. The driving area really shrinks the further you get up the hole. As you can see, anything right of the centerline will slide down into the deep low on the right.
Blake,


Nice of you to respond to Ian’s question. My follow up question:


Can you describe your thinking that led to the new bunker scheme?


Also, given Ian’s question, would you say the hole is visually confusing from the tee? FYI, that was a feature I felt exists on #18 at Cape Kidnappers that I thought was really cool.


Thanks!
Tim Weiman

Blake Conant

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Re: Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2023, 06:08:57 PM »
Tim:


We liked the way the fall off on the right side of the green extended back into the approach and felt it’d be better as short grass rather than bunkering into it. We had pretty much committed to the two fairway bunkers left and liked the way they hid position A off the tee. The severity of the right side meant everyone would try to bail left, so we added the two greenside pot bunkers to limit that. Short or long left is still the best miss, you’ve just got a little something over there to think about now. They’re not too severe.


13 is certainly visually confusing the first time you play it. We have several holes where the width of the fairway is intentionally disorienting: 3, 5, 10, 12, 13, 16, 18.

Kalen Braley

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Re: Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2023, 06:26:24 PM »
Blake,

Thanks for chiming in, looks terrific.

Perhaps the best part of that post is the variant you present for "garden spot" ... a "honey hole".  I absolutely love that!

Tim_Weiman

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Re: Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2023, 06:28:36 PM »
Tim:


We liked the way the fall off on the right side of the green extended back into the approach and felt it’d be better as short grass rather than bunkering into it. We had pretty much committed to the two fairway bunkers left and liked the way they hid position A off the tee. The severity of the right side meant everyone would try to bail left, so we added the two greenside pot bunkers to limit that. Short or long left is still the best miss, you’ve just got a little something over there to think about now. They’re not too severe.


13 is certainly visually confusing the first time you play it. We have several holes where the width of the fairway is intentionally disorienting: 3, 5, 10, 12, 13, 16, 18.
Blake,


Thanks. Very happy to hear about the intentional disorienting.



Tim Weiman

Edward Glidewell

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Re: Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2023, 08:42:09 PM »
It really does look phenomenal and I hope I have a chance to get over to Aiken and play it at some point.

Ben Sims

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Re: Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2023, 09:24:46 AM »

Michael Chadwick

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Re: Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2024, 12:23:37 AM »


Old Barnwell is unlike any course I’ve seen. The features possess visual cues from the work of CB Macdonald and Walter Travis, on land with a scale that exceeds LACC North’s back 9, set in a sandy, forested environment akin to Pinehurst. Its greatest achievement might be how it blends free flowing, gentle lines associated with modern minimalist aesthetics into hazards and green sites that make no effort of shying away from their manufactured identities. The course is unashamed about being a conspicuously built environment, with its raised berms and sod-wall bunkers, yet their sophisticated tie-ins appear natural rather than artificial; no hole of theirs is a template superimposed onto the land. The land still dictated the optimal hole, and the architects responded by building features that, while recognizably hand-built, are shaped appropriately to the surrounding landforms. It’s an irony Brian and Blake pull off with brilliant aplomb—a non-minimalist design that doesn’t clash with nature.



In minimalist/maximalist discussions that have come up elsewhere, I think Old Barnwell is charting a new way forward within that spectrum. One where you can have it both ways. 
Instagram: mj_c_golf

Thomas Dai

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Re: Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2024, 06:47:08 AM »
A terrific OB drone piece has recently been released on YouTube - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=asGBALP6xXo&pp=ygURb2xkIGJhcm53ZWxsIGdvbGY%3D
Looks amazing. Well done Brian and Blake (and all others involved).
Atb

Tim_Weiman

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Re: Old Barnwell - Golf Course Discussion
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2024, 09:46:47 AM »


Old Barnwell is unlike any course I’ve seen. The features possess visual cues from the work of CB Macdonald and Walter Travis, on land with a scale that exceeds LACC North’s back 9, set in a sandy, forested environment akin to Pinehurst. Its greatest achievement might be how it blends free flowing, gentle lines associated with modern minimalist aesthetics into hazards and green sites that make no effort of shying away from their manufactured identities. The course is unashamed about being a conspicuously built environment, with its raised berms and sod-wall bunkers, yet their sophisticated tie-ins appear natural rather than artificial; no hole of theirs is a template superimposed onto the land. The land still dictated the optimal hole, and the architects responded by building features that, while recognizably hand-built, are shaped appropriately to the surrounding landforms. It’s an irony Brian and Blake pull off with brilliant aplomb—a non-minimalist design that doesn’t clash with nature.



In minimalist/maximalist discussions that have come up elsewhere, I think Old Barnwell is charting a new way forward within that spectrum. One where you can have it both ways.
Michael,


Nice to hear your comments. I still haven’t seen the course, but look forward to spending the month of March there.


As a long time golf architecture junkie (non expert, of course!), if there is a single quality in a course that I think is most important it is:


Does the golf course have its own character?


By all accounts, including your post, it sure sounds like Old Barnwell does.
Tim Weiman

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