News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
In The Bronx, Oldest Public Golf Course In America ?
« on: October 12, 2023, 05:46:50 PM »
Situated between 2 elevated subway lines in the north Bronx, Van Cortlandt Park is home to the country’s oldest public golf course.
“What makes it special is the history. Babe Ruth, Jackie Robinson, Willie Mays, the Three Stooges. They all played here,” says Chris Ryan who manages the venerated facility.

On any given weekday during the season, the course sees 120-200 recreational golfers. On weekends, the numbers can swell to over 300 guests playing through the 6,000-yard course.
‘Vanny’, as the course is affectionately known to locals and regulars, is open all year-round and golf warriors suffering from winter blues are always willing to make the trip as long as the grounds are clear of snow.

“Climate change has been good to us,” laughs Ryan, referring to the recent mild winters that saw club swingers leave their cramped apartments to tee-up in the Bronx fairways.

On a balmy April afternoon, Richard stepped off his golf cart carrying a club ready to take on the 5th hole. “I grew up in New Rochelle and I’ve been playing here since the 1960s,” says the 72-year-old. Today, he lives on the upper West Side and makes the 20-minute trip by car.
The brainchild of local businessmen, the golf course opened in 1895 as a nine-hole links. At first, the city balked at the idea of a private course on municipal land, but then settled on a public one with only 2 days a week allotted for private use.

It was an experimental idea that would be followed in other cities. Four years later, Vanny grew to 18 holes with a clubhouse.

Caddies cost 15 cents a round and 25 cents for two. Not surprisingly, large crowds with poor golf etiquette overwhelmed the grounds in the early years, which saw as many as 700 golfers on a Saturday, or Sunday.

The renovation in 1899 was overseen by accomplished golf architect, Thomas Bendelow, who expanded the course from 55 to 120 acres with his signature eye for natural surroundings.

Read More:
https://www.sportshistoryweekly.com/stories/golf-oldest-course-van-cortlandt-park-bronx-ny,1149


https://linksmagazine.com/americas-first-muni-van-cortlandt-park-in-the-bronx/

"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: In The Bronx, Oldest Public Golf Course In America ?
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2023, 07:11:46 PM »
Can't remember the ultimate historical conclusions regarding hard evidence, but I know many hold/restate the opinion that the Dutcher, an arcane, crazy 9-holer in Pawling NY was a tad earlier...I think I have seen various evidence pieces on the board which suggest as early 1891/2.


Disclaimer:
  • as much research has been done and the evidence bandied, nobody has yet fixed it convincingly in such an early year
  • I don't recall whether it could be called technically a public course whenever it opened...think it was inaugurated as an amenity for the extant resort when Pawling was like New Zealand to that day's crowd.
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: In The Bronx, Oldest Public Golf Course In America ?
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2023, 08:49:04 PM »
Can't remember the ultimate historical conclusions regarding hard evidence, but I know many hold/restate the opinion that the Dutcher, an arcane, crazy 9-holer in Pawling NY was a tad earlier...I think I have seen various evidence pieces on the board which suggest as early 1891/2.


Disclaimer:
  • as much research has been done and the evidence bandied, nobody has yet fixed it convincingly in such an early year
  • I don't recall whether it could be called technically a public course whenever it opened...think it was inaugurated as an amenity for the extant resort when Pawling was like New Zealand to that day's crowd.


VKmetz,


Dutcher was 1901.


Only competitor to VCP is Franklin Park in Boston, and depends how you measure it.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Ryan Van Culin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: In The Bronx, Oldest Public Golf Course In America ?
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2023, 12:39:28 AM »
I thought the Oakhurst Links in White Sulphur Springs, WV was opened and held the first competition in 1884. I believe it was officially recognized as the oldest golf course in America when it was restored in 1994.

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: In The Bronx, Oldest Public Golf Course In America ?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2023, 09:58:39 AM »
Ryan,


I'm not sure Oakhurst Links was ever a public course when it opened and last I looked it was "indefinitely closed" due to flooding some time back.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Josh Bills

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: In The Bronx, Oldest Public Golf Course In America ?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2023, 10:09:43 AM »
Here is a 1924 aerial of the area showing the course. 



MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: In The Bronx, Oldest Public Golf Course In America ?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2023, 01:04:48 PM »
Josh,


Is that an old aerial of Van Cortlandt?
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: In The Bronx, Oldest Public Golf Course In America ?
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2023, 01:43:38 PM »

Dutcher was 1901.

Only competitor to VCP is Franklin Park in Boston, and depends how you measure it.


Acknowledged...

"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Bill Healy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: In The Bronx, Oldest Public Golf Course In America ?
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2023, 01:50:57 PM »
To the best of my knowledge, Van Cortlandt Park in Bronx, NY was the first public or municipal golf course in America. Willie Campbell, who was recruited from Scotland to Boston in 1894, built the second public golf course in America at what is now the William Devine Golf Course at Franklin Park in Boston in late 1896. During the late 1890s, Willie Campbell was a strong advocate for public golf and woman's golf. In fact, in 1900, Willie's wife Georgina was hired by the City of Boston to be the first female golf professional in America at Franklin Park.
Bill Healy

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: In The Bronx, Oldest Public Golf Course In America ?
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2023, 02:07:57 PM »
Erik Anders Lang visits Van Cortlandt Park. 8 1/2 minute video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flnbgw2FmHM
 

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: In The Bronx, Oldest Public Golf Course In America ?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2023, 11:07:27 AM »
Franklin Park is an interesting one.   The first news article from the Boston Globe details the first round ever played there in December, 1890. 









Prior accounts seem to suggest that after that first round there was no play at Franklin Park until the city formalized the golf course (with the help of Willie Campbell?) in 1896.   However, this snippet from a Boston Globe article in May of 1893 would suggest otherwise.







It wasn't until three years later that the City formalized the course in the fall of 1896, as detailed in this from May of that year.  With the vivid descriptions of the original holes, I'm wondering if someone very familiar with the park and surrounds couldn't sketch out the original golf course from 1890?


« Last Edit: October 14, 2023, 12:58:55 PM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: In The Bronx, Oldest Public Golf Course In America ?
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2023, 11:22:34 AM »
Hi Mike,


Now that we've gone off on a tangent towards Franklin Park I did some searching last night to test your "one could track the original 1890 course if knowing the park" theory/query.


So, Seaver St. is still presumably where it was in 1890, but it is today on the other side of the Franklin Park Zoo from today's course.  Today's Park was being designed by Frederick Law Olmstead in the 1890s, so this was a time when the area was in flux.  It seems so close to Boston today, but just being 5-6 miles from downtown meant farmland 130 years ago.  Boston itself had been a city for 275 years, but it had grown slowly, only annexing Dorchester in 1870.  The Zoo opened in 1912, so the zoo land was likely still open in 1890. 


I figured the "Castle" might be the old structure that was once on Schoolmaster Hill, behind #5 green/#6 of today's course, but this is probably 600-700 yards from Seaver St., so that doesn't seem like a fit.


More searching led to a reference to "Sargent's Folly," a castle-like structure that was built by previous landowner Lucius Manlius Sargent, himself the son of a Revolution-era merchant.  Sargent had been to Europe and liked the crumbling castles and towers dotting the European countryside in the 19th century, so he built a couple of these structures to ornament his property.  A "Folly" was the actual name for these replica castles, not a comment on his decision-making.  Strangely enough, one of these towers still exists today, standing adjacent to the lion and tiger area at the Zoo, only perhaps 100-150 yards from Seaver St...you can see the tower on the satellite view.


So, the land where the Zoo sits today was heavily modified in the two decades after 1890 to fit the zoo trails, exhibits, etc. so any creeks were likely piped underground, and the previous landscape heavily modified.  But, the castle still stands, so one could perhaps use the description and geometrically come up with a routing using the distances with medium accuracy, but the ground that was used would be rather different today.


As I'm sure you have found interesting...it's wild that such a detailed description exists for this "course" when one of the members of the party was in charge of digging the holes.  It's a great story, and one I had not heard before, but it doesn't sound very permanent. 
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Josh Bills

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: In The Bronx, Oldest Public Golf Course In America ?
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2023, 11:49:14 AM »
Josh,


Is that an old aerial of Van Cortlandt?


Yes. 

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: In The Bronx, Oldest Public Golf Course In America ?
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2023, 12:27:49 PM »
Brad Tufts,


Thanks for all of that terrific information.    I cheated a bit too and saw the location of "Seaver Street" over near the zoo, but wondered if "Blue Hill Ave." existed back then.   In any case, I would agree with you that it's likely the first play was over by today's zoo.   I need to get back to Boston next year. 
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Chris Hughes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: In The Bronx, Oldest Public Golf Course In America ?
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2023, 10:56:47 PM »
To the best of my knowledge, Van Cortlandt Park in Bronx, NY was the first public or municipal golf course in America.


Correct.


Played it many times in the '96 > '02 window. 


Vannie was a complete dump but was accessible on the red line and very inexpensive. 


No fan of American Golf but will say went back several times in summer of '10 and they (American Golf) had performed an about-face on course conditions that was truly mindblowing, kudos to them on that. 
"Is it the Chicken Salad or the golf course that attracts and retains members ?"