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T_MacWood

Re:Has A GREAT course ever been described this way??
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2003, 10:58:36 AM »
Hambone
I've always thought 'snob' was a derogatory term.

What cam first a golf magazine that appealing to the diinterested in architecture or those disinterested in architecture because the mag lacked info on the subject?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2003, 11:01:19 AM by Tom MacWood »

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Has A GREAT course ever been described this way??
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2003, 12:12:37 PM »
Forrest Richardson,

The unusual occurences had to do with the people I met and the circumstances of our meeting.

On the practice tee I was talking with Joe DiMaggio, who was quite loquacious when it came to golf.  I never once mentioned anything about baseball and evidently that put him at ease.  He liked the woods my dad and I were playing with and asked if he could try them.  After he hit them, he inquired about where he could get a set.  We told him that they were custom made by a local clubmaker in NJ.  We could see that he genuinely liked them, so subsequently, we sent him a set.

On the first tee a group asked to go through us,
Lou Rassonova (sp?) and some other celebrity golfers who were obviously playing for a few quid were very appreciative of the fact that we told them to go ahead and play in front of us.

After they were away, I was told to tee off, and, they had hit their second shots and looked well beyond the driving zone, but, I hit one of those dream drives, perfectly flush and it rolled up and past them.

I went up an apologized, but they were very nice about it, complimented me about my drive and asked if I was going to be around for a few days and available for golf.  I told them that I was attending a client Board meeting and as much as I would like to play with them, I was commited to playing golf with my clients and Board members.

Later in the round, Dick Martin, from Rowan & Martin, who did "Laugh In" approached our group, we were on the tee of a par 3, and he had just finished playing the hole behind us, and obviously wanted to play through.  He was in a cart with a stunning, absolutely gorgeous, statuesque young woman, dressed rather provocatively.  He drove up to the tee just as we were teeing off.  I hit a 5-iron about a foot from the hole, just missing a hole in one.  He said something to the effect of,
"Boy, would I give anything to hit a shot like that" to which I responded, "How about your caddy".  We both looked at her, then he looked at my ball on the green, and he said,
"can you get me to hit the ball like that all the time ?".  
To which I responded, "If you'll spend as much time on the practice tee as I'm going to spend with her, the answer is yes !"
We all had a good laugh and he played through, not hitting a particularly good shot.  As he was about to drive off, I said,
"It's your last chance." and we laughed again.

I played well, was in great company, and had a lot of fun that day, which I will never forget.

When you consider who I met, and got to talk to, during that one round of golf, it's rather remarkable.  And, I was playing with my Dad and two really nice fellows, one from Michigan, a former quarterback at Michigan State, now a successful businrss man, and the other, the CEO from New York.

Joe DiMaggio, an idol for years
Lou Rassonova (sp?) who I didn't know, but my dad did.
He told me of Lou's very unique backround and penchant for teeing it up for a few quid.  TEPaul knows of the legendary Lou
The celebrities in his foursome,
Dick Martin, who I had watched a zillion times on TV, and...
His CADDY, who I fantasized about for years.

It was a great day, including the weather.

Brian_Gracely

Re:Has A GREAT course ever been described this way??
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2003, 12:19:05 PM »
does anyone still have the URL link to the SI article about GolfClubAtlas.com, or was it only in the printed version?

A_Clay_Man

Re:Has A GREAT course ever been described this way??
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2003, 01:47:54 PM »
O.K. Who stole Pat Mucci?

That was one greatest post and certainly not in keeping with the real Pat.

Thanx

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Has A GREAT course ever been described this way??
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2003, 08:32:13 PM »
A Clayman,

Ah yes, but,
You don't know the real me,
You only know what I post  ;D

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Has A GREAT course ever been described this way??
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2003, 11:15:23 PM »
Sean,
I didn't say I didn't care about the ratings, at least I do as much about the Golfweek ratings, because I'm part of them.
 
This was not an attack on Ron Whitten. It was a point that it didn't sound to me like Ron Whitten (in his usual jovial style of writing) liked the course much, or at least didn't neccesarily agree with the Best Private ranking. (As pointed out in my time-consuming pointing out in bold)

I also found out something I didn't know. That Golf Digest critieria for Best New Affordable and Upper Scale is not the same as Best New Private. To repeat, Best New Private has a Resistance to Scoring average added to it, while Playability is not part of it at all.

Does this sound like a logical way to build a GREAT golf course--to not make it playable for all, and that it be geared to one-style of golfer who is a low handicap and is well traveled? (the two Golf Digest critieria required to be part of their elite team to serve as a panelist)

As a rater, of the three courses, I have played but one--Friars Head. I happen to think that its the best modern golf course I have ever been on and seen up-close. In fact I get giddy thinking about how good it really is. While I can suspect that the Fazio course, in tune with his other exclusively private and highly-touted golf courses, is also Playable.  But like in the football rankings, they finish #2 & 3. and Ron Whitten tells me in his article that Black Creek has narrow fairways along with a bunch of other items that really don't make a lasting impression for me to get up to Idaho to go see it, because simply, my time and finances are limited to see a lot of these things--there are many others things my palate that interest me, like Michigan, NC, SC, and Georgia. Plus once in a great while, I would like to take a vacation on a empty beach in Hawaii with a cocktail in my hand while catching some rays.

That's what this thread is about.

JBStansell

Re:Has A GREAT course ever been described this way??
« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2003, 12:16:04 PM »
Mr. Naccarato,

I live in the Pacific N.W. and can recommend a trip to the Northern Idaho area for its golf and other recreational opportunities.  That said, I was left with an impression similar to yours after reading Mr. Whitten's review of Black Rock - a reluctant acceptance of it as the winner of the Best New Private.  


Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Has A GREAT course ever been described this way??
« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2003, 12:54:42 PM »
Joe,
Thanks for the input! And in no way did I ever intend to say that Idaho or the entire Pacific Northwest isn't a great place to visit or even live. The Portland area up until this last year was sort of a second home for me--since my family has decided after 35 years to move back home. While my Oregon roots have somewhat changed, but I still love it up there and the memories of the good times I have had there in Washington and more specifically, the Oregon Coast. I will be back.

THuckaby2

Re:Has A GREAT course ever been described this way??
« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2003, 12:59:45 PM »
I also found out something I didn't know. That Golf Digest critieria for Best New Affordable and Upper Scale is not the same as Best New Private. To repeat, Best New Private has a Resistance to Scoring average added to it, while Playability is not part of it at all.

Are you sure about that, Tommy?  I know we don't do any course any differently when submitting our ratings... That is, we submit numerical values for Resistance to Scoring and Playbility (as well as many other things) for every course with no differentiation at all... If the editors pick and choose what they count for different awards, it hasn't been told to the rank and file.  I don't entirely doubt you - I just wonder what your source is for this.

TH

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Has A GREAT course ever been described this way??
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2003, 01:02:04 PM »
Tom,
Golf Digest was the source of the description listing the critiera of how the courses are rated.

THuckaby2

Re:Has A GREAT course ever been described this way??
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2003, 03:57:14 PM »
Tommy  - I don't have the magazine, and I can't find the reference on line.  Can you point me to it specifically?  Again, it's not that I doubt you at all... I just find this very strange and I want to read how they explain it.

TH

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Has A GREAT course ever been described this way??
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2003, 04:14:56 PM »
« Last Edit: December 08, 2003, 04:15:46 PM by Tommy_Naccarato »

THuckaby2

Re:Has A GREAT course ever been described this way??
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2003, 04:17:34 PM »
Tommy:

Aha!  Found it  - thanks.  It was kinda buried in there, I missed it before.  Here's what they say:

"Golf Digest's panel of more than 700 low-handicap men and women choose our Best New Courses every year. When visiting potential Best New Courses across North America, they fill out a score sheet for every course they play and evaluate. To determine the winners and runners-up, we average all panelists' scores (based on a scale of 1 to 10) for each course. Their criteria: shot values, design variety, memorability and aesthetics, plus playability (for affordable and upscale public) or resistance to scoring (for private and Canadian). We total the average scores and add bonus points for walkability. The resulting highest score in each category wins."

Strange to me why they do this... oh well...

BTW, I don't know Topsy nearly well enough to bother her with crap like this.. nor do I care to question her.

TH
« Last Edit: December 08, 2003, 04:19:25 PM by Tom Huckaby »

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Has A GREAT course ever been described this way??
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2003, 05:32:17 PM »
Tom,
Why wouldn't you want to question Topsy Sideroff if you had what you felt was a pertinent question? To me not knowing your Golf Digest critieria and then going out and not knowing what you were supposed to look at would be sort of like looking at the course with one eye shut wouldn't it?

THuckaby2

Re:Has A GREAT course ever been described this way??
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2003, 05:34:44 PM »
Tommy:

Nope.  They don't tell us to rate any way other than to just submit numerical ratings for ALL criteria.  What they choose to count and not count is their business.  I reall don't care all that much.

Just do realize we have no instruction to do it any other way... we have no form to do it any other way...

TH

btw - if you're going to invoke her name, at least spell it correctly.  Siderowf.  ;D
« Last Edit: December 08, 2003, 05:35:20 PM by Tom Huckaby »

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Has A GREAT course ever been described this way??
« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2003, 05:59:09 PM »
Tom, Relax, don't get all turned-up because of a casual misspelling. I have never known you to get upset. Your the one that accentuates the positive remember!  ;D

I think its odd that a Golfweek panelist has to point out to a Golf Digest panelist, their own critieria--some of the Golf Digest panelists I have played golf with usually carry a little notebook, grading all of their shots and finding the substance which makes a course so GREAT, I'm frankly surprized that they didn't give you a notebook describing how to do it, as well as the general critieria. But then again, we all know these rankings are not perfect. I guess the same can be said then of the information process to the panelists.

Sorry for the confusion.