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mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« on: August 10, 2023, 06:33:02 PM »
Because of technical difficulties the audio from Golf Channel is gone. All we have is the golf and the ground audio from the scorers.


  I love it!!!
AKA Mayday

Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2023, 06:44:30 PM »
I love the quiet no chatter commentary . You can hear the sounds of the game for once

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2023, 07:11:48 PM »
That’s the end. They brought in studio commentators.
AKA Mayday

JReese

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2023, 07:40:06 PM »
Well the silence was nice while it lasted!  Course is showing quite well.....cant believe how F&F it is playing.  Looks like a blast.
"Bunkers are not places of pleasure; they are for punishment and repentance." - Old Tom Morris

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2023, 07:44:20 PM »
Any thoughts on Bel Air?


I've played there four times in the last 2 years and consider what Tom and Eric have done one of the great restorations in American golf.  You have to see the before and after photos on nearly every hole.


I've spoken with a member a few times this week and he had some interesting comments. 


1. They have slowed down the greens for the tournament. Bel Air on a normal day plays super fast and its amplified by the hills and mounding. 


2. The new clubhouse still is not open.  Its cost overrun is over $10 million.  It may go down as one of the most expensive clubhouses ever.


3. The tees have been moved up except for a few holes. 


4. Crowds are thin. Parking is available at UCLA but its kinda a pain to get there.

JReese

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2023, 08:06:25 PM »
1st time seeing the course on TV......definitely getting some ANGC vibes. 
"Bunkers are not places of pleasure; they are for punishment and repentance." - Old Tom Morris

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2023, 09:21:00 PM »
1st time seeing the course on TV......definitely getting some ANGC vibes.


Yes, if Augusta was set in canyons, it would be just like Bel Air.  ????


There is nowhere else quite like it.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2023, 09:21:27 PM »
Any thoughts on Bel Air?

I've played there four times in the last 2 years and consider what Tom and Eric have done one of the great restorations in American golf.  You have to see the before and after photos on nearly every hole.

I've spoken with a member a few times this week and he had some interesting comments. 

1. They have slowed down the greens for the tournament. Bel Air on a normal day plays super fast and its amplified by the hills and mounding. 

2. The new clubhouse still is not open.  Its cost overrun is over $10 million.  It may go down as one of the most expensive clubhouses ever.

3. The tees have been moved up except for a few holes. 

4. Crowds are thin. Parking is available at UCLA but its kinda a pain to get there.


Joel:


Thanks for your comments.  It's a true restoration; you don't see many of those, and you don't ever see them on a piece of property as spectacular as Bel Air.


To your comments:


1.  There is a LOT of elevation change going up those canyons, but it's hard to get a sense of it when you are down in a canyon.  The 18th hole alone is 70 feet uphill, which is one reason the green is so severe.  The 4th, 6th, 10th, 13th, and 16th greens are also pretty spicy from back to front, and the 3rd, 8th, 14th, 15th, and 17th are really tough because they are falling away from the line of play even though they look like they're built up in back.


2.  I'm sad to hear that the clubhouse is not done yet, but the delays and overruns were fairly predictable.  The pandemic started the scheduling problems.


3.  It's the Women's Amateur.  What distance are they playing?  [I would think they were playing the normal white tees except for a handful of holes.]


4.  Getting in and out of Bel Air into L.A. traffic is a major pain.  It's one reason the club is so well utilized by the members . . . they'll have breakfast or dinner there instead of venturing out onto Sunset Blvd.  Plus, there is nowhere for the spectators to be except following a group around through the tunnels and all the rest . . . that will work better in the final than it does for the round of 64.




My favorite Bel Air story:  since we had the course closed, they decided they would re-pour the concrete in the tunnel from #5 to #6.  The next morning:  coyote footprints in the tunnel !



« Last Edit: August 10, 2023, 09:30:09 PM by Tom_Doak »

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2023, 09:56:15 PM »
1st time seeing the course on TV......definitely getting some ANGC vibes.


Yes, if Augusta was set in canyons, it would be just like Bel Air.  ??? ?


There is nowhere else quite like it.
This is my first time seeing BA on TV and I have never seen it in person but it definitely reminds me of another George Thomas design Palos Verdes CC which I have played several times many years ago. The LPGA plays there. It also has elevation changes and canyons with bridges.
TD can you compare BACC to PVCC and have you played PVCC? 8)
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2023, 11:22:49 PM »
Number 1 is such a good looking hole now. That lattice looking bunkering right of the green was hideous.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2023, 08:57:04 AM »
1st time seeing the course on TV......definitely getting some ANGC vibes.


Yes, if Augusta was set in canyons, it would be just like Bel Air.  ??? ?


There is nowhere else quite like it.
This is my first time seeing BA on TV and I have never seen it in person but it definitely reminds me of another George Thomas design Palos Verdes CC which I have played several times many years ago. The LPGA plays there. It also has elevation changes and canyons with bridges.
TD can you compare BACC to PVCC and have you played PVCC? 8)


Tim:


I saw Palos Verdes ages ago before they did any of the work to it; it seemed small and cramped by trees, but I don't remember it well enough to comment.  I am pretty sure I would remember if it had a bridge like the one at Bel Air!

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2023, 09:58:25 AM »
In terms of the sparse crowds - isn't that typically the case for Amateur events, even the Mens Am and Walker Cup?

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2023, 11:02:28 AM »
Wayne,

I'll be in LA next week, but I sure wish it was this week.  Would have been a great way to spend half a day and see the course and some good golf.

P.S.  The course does look fantastic and I think the ANGC comparison could have been in relation to a hole like 17 which appears to play significantly downhill, like 10 at ANGC.  The one group I saw, the hole was playing 450+ and one of the players hit driver/wedge to the green.

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2023, 11:30:46 AM »
Wayne,

I'll be in LA next week, but I sure wish it was this week.  Would have been a great way to spend half a day and see the course and some good golf.
I agree, and I would attend to see the course.  But GCA nerds don't make up a large gallery.

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2023, 11:36:57 AM »
In terms of the sparse crowds - isn't that typically the case for Amateur events, even the Mens Am and Walker Cup?
Wayne,


I’ll take the Walker Cup over any pro event. Loved how Pine Valley handled it in 1985. There were only about 2-3000 people attending. You could walk the fairways and listen to player-caddy conversations.
Tim Weiman

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2023, 11:48:58 AM »
In terms of the sparse crowds - isn't that typically the case for Amateur events, even the Mens Am and Walker Cup?
Wayne,


I’ll take the Walker Cup over any pro event. Loved how Pine Valley handled it in 1985. There were only about 2-3000 people attending. You could walk the fairways and listen to player-caddy conversations.
I agree, but you are making my point that Amateur events typically don't attract a lot of fans.  ANWA might be an exception to that.

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2023, 11:48:58 AM »
In terms of the sparse crowds - isn't that typically the case for Amateur events, even the Mens Am and Walker Cup?


My club Rolling Green hosted the Women’s Am in 2016. We had a nice turnout of hundreds every day.
AKA Mayday

JReese

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2023, 02:36:03 PM »
1st time seeing the course on TV......definitely getting some ANGC vibes.


Yes, if Augusta was set in canyons, it would be just like Bel Air.  ??? ?


There is nowhere else quite like it.


I could have been more clear......I don't think Bel-Air looks identical to ANGC just that when I was watching there seemed to be some similarities (land movement, width, maintenance and low rough height).  At any rate, the place looks fantastic!
"Bunkers are not places of pleasure; they are for punishment and repentance." - Old Tom Morris

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2023, 04:11:53 PM »
I’m really enjoying watching this. I think I understand what JReese meant, but will leave his words to speak for themselves. Beautiful land movement, groomed green surrounds, etc, I think that was what he meant, more than any obvious similarities.


As an aside, what do you all look for when watching an event at a course you’re unfamiliar with on tv?


I personally mostly just look for fairway land movement, green and surroundings movement, and then just hope for some visual highlights - a skyline green, a mound here or there that looks natural, not created, maybe something in the background of a tee shot. I’m especially interested in what any of the architects who post are here look for.


Thanks, I’ll hang up and demand your response.🙂
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2023, 06:49:57 PM »
George,


 It seems that Thomas loved the land.
AKA Mayday

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2023, 07:44:23 PM »
Just took a closer look at the pond and creek on the back 9 via Google Earth.  What's the back story on that?  I presume it was originally just a dry wash?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2023, 08:20:22 PM »
Just took a closer look at the pond and creek on the back 9 via Google Earth.  What's the back story on that?  I presume it was originally just a dry wash?


Yes, originally a dry wash.  By the 1970s they had put in a bunch of concrete to control floods.  Sometime after that, I am not sure if it was Tom Fazio or RTJ Jr. who put in the water feature.


I really wanted to get it out of there, but it would have been an expensive demolition, and the belief was that members would rebel if we took out ALL of the water features.  I opted to take out the ponds on #3 and #8 and let the creek stay, since it was always a hazard anyway.  Getting the two ponds out of there is one of my greatest wins as a consultant anywhere.

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2023, 08:32:41 PM »
The pond in front of 3 was more artificial feeling than the one on 8. Does 9 still have a back tee across 8 green? Seems like it is gone now?

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2023, 08:43:00 PM »
It looks like a very fun course!  And Julie Inkster is fantastic,
Project 2025....All bow down to our new authoritarian government.

Jeff Kallberg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No commentary and few fans at Bel Air
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2023, 06:18:06 PM »

Yes, originally a dry wash.  By the 1970s they had put in a bunch of concrete to control floods.  Sometime after that, I am not sure if it was Tom Fazio or RTJ Jr. who put in the water feature.


I really wanted to get it out of there, but it would have been an expensive demolition, and the belief was that members would rebel if we took out ALL of the water features.  I opted to take out the ponds on #3 and #8 and let the creek stay, since it was always a hazard anyway.  Getting the two ponds out of there is one of my greatest wins as a consultant anywhere.



As a lad in the late 60s - early 70s, I used to caddy at Bel Air, and I don't recall any creeks then (or any creeks that had water in them).  But the problem may be my memory!  I recall that there was a lot of envy of the courses with water features that we used to see on TV coverage of golf, and it was a big deal when some of the new courses (like Valencia, and a long-closed 9-holer close to Marina Del Rey) included lakes to hit over on par 3s.  I'm guessing that BA's move to water features in the 70s was tied in with that local "water-feature envy".


Jeff Kallberg