PGA Tour announces it will not support the rollback of the ball

[Mike_Clayton]

Matt,

There is precedent for sports changing ball characteristics for integrity of the game.

- Baseball reduced the liveliness of the ball to both protect past records and to prevent expanding outfields
- Football also stopped letting teams manage the balls after Brady-gate to protect the integrity of the game.

I don't know why golf would be the bad guy for wanting to preserve its history and a true test of a player is using all 14 clubs in the bag, not just driver and wedges and the occasional 3 wood.

Athletics also changed the Javelin in 1984-86.  Javelin throws were becoming so long that there would soon be risk of impaling runners on the track and the javelin was landing to flat and skimming on the ground.  I think that is the closest analogy to golf.

Exactly, and common sense prevailed.
Just like it did when the entire rest of the golf world was forced to switch to a larger ball 50 years ago- a FAR bigger switch for players.

Exactly right.
The problem with this rollback, unlike the last one, is it's an American-centric debate - one largely uninformed of the consequences of the one we all went through in the late 1970s when we had to switch to the big (1.68') ball.
It was a much greater change  - if for no other reason that the big ball was largely manufactured in America  (although both Spalding and Dunlop/Slazenger made both balls here in Australia) where golf was played in much less wind than it was in Australia or Britain.
Soon after the switch Titleist came out with the Low-Traj ball and Dunlop made the DDH which was a much better ball in the wind than the regular Pro-Traj Titleist.


The 1.68 ball was different in every way -  aside from being 20-25 yards shorter. It was different to putt, to chip and to pitch with.
The current suggestions will be way easier to adapt to than the change from 1.62'-1.68'.


And, this generation of pros have all the benefits of Trackman and the data it provides. 40 years ago there was a lot of assumption, trial and error and guesswork.

[Wayne_Kozun]

And American pros (like Nicklaus, Trevino, etc) seemed to have no issue switching to the smaller ball for one week a year as they won a lot of the Open Championships in the decade or so before the change in the 70s. 

[Ben Sims]

I don’t see how the MLR ball doesn’t get universally adopted in all of golf over the next decade. It’s not hard to game out how it will go down and I have to say, the USGA and R&A really played their hand perfectly. Leveraging the prestige of major championships was very smart. ANGC will follow. Professional tours will also.


And after all those chips fall, give it a few seasons and you’ll see golf at large doing it.

[John Kavanaugh]

GCA type guys will play the dead ball establishing a handicap. The live ball playing to that handicap.

[Charlie Goerges]

And American pros (like Nicklaus, Trevino, etc) seemed to have no issue switching to the smaller ball for one week a year as they won a lot of the Open Championships in the decade or so before the change in the 70s.

I think I read in Nicklaus' autobiography from the 70s that he made the permanent switch to the larger ball in the open before he had to. (in other words he didn't switch back and forth, at least after a certain point) I could be remembering that wrong, but it stuck in my head.

[Mike_Clayton]

And American pros (like Nicklaus, Trevino, etc) seemed to have no issue switching to the smaller ball for one week a year as they won a lot of the Open Championships in the decade or so before the change in the 70s.

I think I read in Nicklaus' autobiography from the 70s that he made the permanent switch to the larger ball in the open before he had to. (in other words he didn't switch back and forth, at least after a certain point) I could be remembering that wrong, but it stuck in my head.

Nicklaus always played the small ball when he came to Australia - until the tour switched to the 1.68' ball in 1978
He won the Australian Open and Dunlop International in 1971 and then flew to Florida for the World Cup - where he used a small ball because it was allowed back then.

[Charlie Goerges]

And American pros (like Nicklaus, Trevino, etc) seemed to have no issue switching to the smaller ball for one week a year as they won a lot of the Open Championships in the decade or so before the change in the 70s.

I think I read in Nicklaus' autobiography from the 70s that he made the permanent switch to the larger ball in the open before he had to. (in other words he didn't switch back and forth, at least after a certain point) I could be remembering that wrong, but it stuck in my head.

Nicklaus always played the small ball when he came to Australia - until the tour switched to the 1.68' ball in 1978
He won the Australian Open and Dunlop International in 1971 and then flew to Florida for the World Cup - where he used a small ball because it was allowed back then.

I’m certain you’re right, but am i misremembering the USGA switch occurred before the rest of the world? The way I remember it from the book, once he made the switch permanently in the US, he didn’t switch back and forth. Again, this is from a book I read like 30 years ago.

[Tom_Doak]

And American pros (like Nicklaus, Trevino, etc) seemed to have no issue switching to the smaller ball for one week a year as they won a lot of the Open Championships in the decade or so before the change in the 70s.

Wayne:


That's an interesting take but I doubt it's correct.  It could also be that Nicklaus, Trevino, Weiskopf etc were just better than anyone else in the world in the 1970s.  They switched because they could not afford to give up 25-30 yards to the field.


IIRC, the changeover happened in 1979 at Lytham.  [It was possibly the year after; it was definitely before I moved over there in 1982.]  Whatever effect it had was blurred by the fact that Tom Watson won two of the Opens just before the change in '75 and '77, and three of them right afterward.  Bill Rogers at Sandwich in '81 was maybe the player who benefited the most from not having to make the adjustment.


Interestingly, though -- as hard as it may be to believe today -- not many pros in the 1970s played by yardage!  Jack Nicklaus famously learned to do it from an amateur named Gene Andrews who was an opponent of his in the U.S. Amateur, and that was one of the reasons he was such a dominant player.  Case in point:  the little guide book for Harbour Town Golf Links that inspired me to become interested in golf course design was the forerunner for modern yardage books, but the only yardages it had were the length of the holes from the back tee.

[Mike_Clayton]

Charlie,


I think the US switched to the bigger ball eons ago because on the generally lusher fairways the small ball didn't sit up as well as the bigger ball.
If that's right, it was long before Jack Nicklaus was even thought of!


Tom,


The first 1.68' Open was at Lytham in 1974 - so Watson never played a 'small ball' Open.
Not having to switch balls -and having to learn to play with the more difficult to hit 1.68' ball-  was unquestionably a factor in the almost immediate emergence to the superstar generation of European players - Seve, Faldo, Langer, Lyle, Woosnam, Olazabal. Monty even:)

[Sean_A]

Thanks Clayts. I thought that Watson was exclusively a big ball Open player having won his Open debut in 1975.

When did the PGA Tour/USGA go with the larger ball? I assume it goes back at least as far as the 40s.

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

Going back in time there was also debate about the weight of the ball.
atb

[Niall C]

There was also a campaign that balls should be able to float on water IIRC. I think it was Willie Park Jnr who was in favour of that.


Niall

[Ken Moum]

Charlie,


I think the US switched to the bigger ball eons ago because on the generally lusher fairways the small ball didn't sit up as well as the bigger ball.
If that's right, it was long before Jack Nicklaus was even thought of!


Tom,


The first 1.68' Open was at Lytham in 1974 - so Watson never played a 'small ball' Open.
Not having to switch balls -and having to learn to play with the more difficult to hit 1.68' ball-  was unquestionably a factor in the almost immediate emergence to the superstar generation of European players - Seve, Faldo, Langer, Lyle, Woosnam, Olazabal. Monty even:)

The US switched to the big ball in 1930.  We also dropped the weight to 1.55 ounces, resulting in the "Balloon Ball." John VdB has an excellent essay on it here, https://golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/john-vander-borght-the-balloon-ball/


That said, I have contended for years that with today's manufacturers have shown their ability to control spin, launch, etc. simply reducing the maximum weight of the ball would accomplish most of what people seem to want. No need to go to 1.55 ounces, however.


I would make the ball curve more and make it more susceptible to the wind, especially at high ball speeds. 


The other thing is that it would reduce the ballistic coefficient of the ball, meaning that the faster it launched, the more speed it would lose in the first 50 to 100 yards. As it lost speed, or if it was launched at a lower speed, the effect becomes smaller.


So, it would have almost no effect on the shortest hitters, except in high headwinds, and it would be easier for them to keep the ball in the air.


It would sit up a tiny bit better on the grass, which , again, would be more benefit to the weakest players like seniors, women and juniors.


But despite Callaway making a ball that embodies the idea in the Reva, which isn't lighter, but bigger, 1.73 (vs. 1.68, while the "small ball" was 1.62).  It's based on the Topflite Magna that Callaway got when it bought the brand.


I'm in the shortest hitter camp, and have played the Magna and Reva a bit.  They do work, but I like balls with a little more greenside spin.

[Ken Moum]

There was also a campaign that balls should be able to float on water IIRC. I think it was Willie Park Jnr who was in favour of that.


Niall

Back in the late '20s when the balloon ball was being created, there were more than a few who thought a floater would solve the problem.  I'm pretty sure the 1930 USGA ball that was  1.68" and 1.55 ounces would float.


It only takes a some salt in the water to get a modern ball to float.

[Niall C]

Ken


I'm surprised to hear that about the modern ball. Despite being a member of several links courses, and having played a lot of other links, I'm struggling to think of when I ever put a ball into the sea. I might have done it at North Berwick off the second tee. I know I've definitely ended up on the beach but can't recall going in the sea. Maybe need to give it a go next time 


Niall

[Ken Moum]

Ken


I'm surprised to hear that about the modern ball. Despite being a member of several links courses, and having played a lot of other links, I'm struggling to think of when I ever put a ball into the sea. I might have done it at North Berwick off the second tee. I know I've definitely ended up on the beach but can't recall going in the sea. Maybe need to give it a go next time 


Niall

It takes more than seawater, something like 50g per 100ml. Or 1/2 cup per cup of water.


So, really, really salty.


But you can tell how close a ball is to neutral buoyancy when you're trying to fish one out of a pond with a wedge.


Here's a little YT experiment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zbl0-gONBT4&ab_channel=LetsPlayThru