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Patrick_Mucci

Re:Golf Digest Best New - coming soon...
« Reply #225 on: December 04, 2003, 06:47:11 PM »
George Pazin,

You can't be that naive or obtuse.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Digest Best New - coming soon...
« Reply #226 on: December 04, 2003, 06:50:43 PM »
Sure I can - my mom always said I can be whatever I want to be. :)

Actually, the ability to have concrete beliefs without allowing them to be overly influenced by outside opinion is one of the primary traits that I seek out in close friends.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

THuckaby2

Re:Golf Digest Best New - coming soon...
« Reply #227 on: December 05, 2003, 09:39:21 AM »
George:

I have learned many things from you, but among the most important are these:

1) no one can speak for the "masses", and I have been guilty of that far too often - my masses don't necessarily equal your masses, without a doubt.

2) I know that fires you up, and rightly so!

As for opinions re all of this... well... certainly one can offer value judgments as to the worth and validity of opinions on any matter.  If I were to opine on quantum physics, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for someone to say my opinion is complete crap next to that of Steven Hawken!

But where we differ, I believe, is that I don't find golf to be a game where experience and education necessarily bring one to any higher level of lucidity... To me, the wine analogy holds - an expert can tell me a wine is great, but if I don't like the taste, just why is it great for me?

At least to a large extent, that's how I think it works for golf courses... All the experts in the world can tell someone that Fazio courses suck, but if someone enjoys Shadow Creek or Dallas National or whatever, for what reason does that course suck for him?

I expect you to disagree with this - my understanding of your position is that you think as golfers study more and are exposed to more, they do come to a higher level of comprehension and understanding, and will see why the Fazio courses suck (just using that as an example).  Perhaps that is true, to a degree - their "eye" will get sharper and they will look for things beyond waterfalls and nice conditions.  But I'd counter that by saying this:  just how can anyone decide, with certainty, what this higher good IS in a golf course that anyone should be aspiring to understand?  That is, how do you set the standard?  Why is it necessarily true that Rustic Canyon is better than Lost Canyons, for anyone, as much as many aficionados - including me - would hold that to be true?

That is likely our basic disagreement.  I don't think there is any one set standard that any of us should accept as the gold... to each his own... and it does remain a big beautiful world of golf.

TH

A_Clay_Man

Re:Golf Digest Best New - coming soon...
« Reply #228 on: December 05, 2003, 09:48:50 AM »
Brad- As long as it gets you going nowhere, we'll all be fine.

 Now I have to figure a way to live off the loss of income. ;D
« Last Edit: December 05, 2003, 01:36:10 PM by A_Clay_Man »

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Digest Best New - coming soon...
« Reply #229 on: December 05, 2003, 02:25:56 PM »
Rater A:  There you go again, you demented malcontent.   Bitch, bitch, bitch.  All the great things you could point to in this fine American original, but all you can find is a couple of really minor flaws.  What's this garbage about intended shots?  Whose intentions?  Ed Asner's?  Everyone who knows anything about golf architecture will tell you that only insecure designers would force you to play the game a certain way.  And you have the audacity to call me an ignorant slut!  If you don't like it, why don't you move to Cuba.  There you can become a Forensic Golf Architect, and see if you and your buddy Fidel can probe around and find Ross's greatest work, Havana CC, in what is now a prison for political prisoners.   Better yet, save yourself some time and aggravation and hire the famous Tommy Maccrato, ASFGCA, so at least all will not be for naught.  Respectfully, "A"

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Digest Best New - coming soon...
« Reply #230 on: December 05, 2003, 02:31:04 PM »
Recent events have led me to adopt a new position.  I now think that Ron Whitten is Numero Uno in the golf course discernment game.  Let there be no doubt, Black Rock is THE best new private club, and Mr. Engh is without peer, at least in 2003.

Are there any slots left on the CGA.COM panel?

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Digest Best New - coming soon...
« Reply #231 on: December 05, 2003, 03:12:19 PM »
Are there any slots left on the CGA.COM panel?

Only ignorant slots!
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Digest Best New - coming soon...
« Reply #232 on: December 05, 2003, 05:34:56 PM »
I don't know about slots, but I just couldn't resist and had to go back to this stupid picture of "the other Freddie" and needed to find an innane thread to announce it on!

If we ever meet, Shivas, I'm going to be surprised that you don't look like that inane Freddie.

At least I hope you don't!

----------------------

Oh, and by the way, all you raters --

I'm still wondering: To what lengths would a course go if it were struggling to get enough raters to make it eligible?

Any of you raters care to tell any stories?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2003, 05:44:31 PM by Dan Kelly »
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Digest Best New - coming soon...
« Reply #233 on: December 06, 2003, 10:14:15 AM »
Adam/Lou - very sorry to hear about you guys being fired by Brad - I very much enjoyed playing golf with you both.  Look on the bright side, golf will now cost you LESS than it did as raters!  JC

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Digest Best New - coming soon...
« Reply #234 on: December 06, 2003, 10:55:44 AM »
Jonathan,

I did read something about that on the GW Insiders News, where it was also noted that GD and GM were competing to pick up our contracts.  It was also noted that by me and Adam departing the fine GW panel and joining one of the others, the average sensitivity and scholarship at the two affected publications would be greatly enhanced.  Was this a backhanded compliment or just a rude slap?  I will miss you too, but we'll see you at the KPIII.

BTW, Chicago is on my list for 2004, but I am iffy on the others.



ForkaB

Re:Golf Digest Best New - coming soon...
« Reply #235 on: December 07, 2003, 02:51:24 AM »
Are there any slots left on the CGA.COM panel?

Only ignorant slots!

Good one!