Golf

[jeffwarne]

They're playing it on CNBC(in the US) right now.(Senior Open)


I get quite frustrated when I hear the term "Links" golf.
This is golf.
The rest needs another name.

[Thomas Dai]

Splendidly iffy conditions for the final round of the British Seniors at Royal Porthcawl today.
“Proper golf” is the term sometimes used to describe what Jeff I believe is alluding to above.
Wind, rain and drizzle, woolly hats. Splendid.
Rare conditions for Wales.
Surfers having fun in the bay though.
Atb


Below - 72nd hole at PRGC today. Padraig Harrington in white woolly hat playing his second shot.

[jeffwarne]

Splendidly iffy conditions for the final round of the British Seniors at Royal Porthcawl today.
“Proper golf” is the term sometimes used to describe what Jeff I believe is alluding to above.
Wind, rain and drizzle, woolly hats. Splendid.
Rare conditions for Wales.

Surfers having fun in the bay though.
Atb

It's the weather many of us get in the "off seasons" when visiting-except it's July-lol.
We've all played in it.
Great stuff.
It's all about judgement, improvising, not letting errors compound.
Suddenly Trackman isn't overly relevant and that "fade only" modern drive shot pattern isn't so good in a hard left to right crosswind.




In other words, --GOLF.

[Steve Lang]

   GaallllF ?


and Archer in his short sleeves... in the elements


good stuff indeed from the Sr's

[DFarron]

I knew that Porthcawl was a top course, but no idea how good it was. I find myself drawn to watching even though none of the Champions Tour players I like are in contention.

[David_Tepper]

Calling all golf sadists!

[Thomas Dai]

Yabba dabba doo!
Improvisation. Great word to describe the kind of shot selection, club-on-ball and mental skills needed.
For non-snowflake players so many important and enjoyable aspects of the game come back into modern era play when the weather conditions become more taxing with thoughtful course and expectation management plus error prevention being ever more important pieces within the great puzzle that is playing golf.
Atb


Below - Royal Porthcawl final afternoon of the Seniors Open - 72nd hole - wind blowing, waves crashing, woolly hats, jackets, hands in pockets. Perfect!!!

[Kalen Braley]

Not only has the golf been more interesting to watch this week at the Senior Open.....

It looks like NBC let the local broadcast team handle everything including the interviews and other commentary...and the difference is night and day from last week.  It was an absolute delight, with plenty of witty and quick quips, and great insights to the action and what the players are going thru.

When and why did American broadcast teams become so horrific??

[Greg Hohman]

I have not watched the senior tour in years, but tuned in once I saw where they were playing and am glad I did. To Kalen’s point: Did I hear the winner’s mug described as one “only a mother could love,” or did the audible weather play a trick on this viewer thousands of miles away?

[jeffwarne]

Could there be agreater contrast between RP and the 3 M classic at TPC Twin Cities on the PGA Tour?
POnds and lakes on every hole.


If RP is "golf", TPC Twin Cities is "water" golf.


Let's not bastardize "golf" played in its original form on links land with a disclaimer label, but rather all the more recent forms.

[David_Tepper]

It's a good thing the weather made the golf interesting. Otherwise the leaderboard, aside from P. Harrington, was decidedly lacking in "star power." 

[Mike_Trenham]

They're playing it on CNBC(in the US) right now.(Senior Open)


I get quite frustrated when I hear the term "Links" golf.
This is golf.
The rest needs another name.

Country Club Golf

[jeffwarne]

It's a good thing the weather made the golf interesting. Otherwise the leaderboard, aside from P. Harrington, was decidedly lacking in "star power."

Cejka's got three majors.
Alker was player of the year last year.
Most 50 plus exPGA Tour players lack the hunger these days to try and stay sharp enough to keep up with the hungry/late bloomers.
Just gotta recognise the new "stars"


I enjoyed watching the mostly Euro veterans create the shots required to contend.
The stock high ball, one dimensional modern equipment low spin faders were nowhere to be seen.
Gotta shape it in those conditions-great to see.

[John Crowley]

Not only has the golf been more interesting to watch this week at the Senior Open.....

It looks like NBC let the local broadcast team handle everything including the interviews and other commentary...and the difference is night and day from last week.  It was an absolute delight, with plenty of witty and quick quips, and great insights to the action and what the players are going thru.

When and why did American broadcast teams become so horrific??

K,
Yes, Senior Open was “real golf”.
I mute 90% of American broadcasts but do listen to UK announcers.
Possible answer to your question - when did Nance start announcing golf?
J

[David_Tepper]

Jeff W. -

My apologies. I had a feeling my post might make be sound like a bit of a jerk. I know you are closer to senior tour golf than just about anyone else on this board.

At the risk of going off topic, I wonder if the senior tour is approaching (or has already reached) a crossroads. It was conceived as a "star  vehicle," to keep the likes of Palmer, Player, Nicklaus, Casper, Trevino, etc. in the public eye for an extra decade or two. Weiskopf, Irwin, Watson, Couples, etc. followed over the years. These were all players who had won majors and many events in their younger days.

People came out (or turned on the TV) to watch "the heroes of their youth." I have attended several senior tour events in the Bay Area over the years for that reason. Tournament sponsors were eager to sponsor those events so they could rub elbows with the same.

As you have noted, the senior tour is now a place where players (aside from Bernhard Langer!) who have little or no reputation from their younger days have come to the fore. The stars of the regular tours have made so much money over the years that their incentive to work hard enough to compete on a regular basis has waned (Langer excepted again ).

I just wonder whether or not this transition in "star power" (to the lack thereof) will jeopardize the future of the senior tour in regards to tournament attendance and TV viewership.

DT 
   

[Thomas Dai]

I enjoyed watching the mostly Euro veterans create the shots required to contend.
The stock high ball, one dimensional modern equipment low spin faders were nowhere to be seen.
Gotta shape it in those conditions-great to see.

Well said.
Terrific to see this kind of golf again. These guys are good, really, really good, exceptional. Let’s see them showcase it more often. When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
Aspects of it were seen at Renaissance during the Scottish Open and at Hoylake during The Open and now at Royal Porthcawl too.
So much more enjoyable and fun to watch than the usual bland and boring run of the mill yet hyped-up driver-wedge-putt mens golf tournaments played in perfect weather normally seen on TV these days.
Atb

[jeffwarne]

I enjoyed watching the mostly Euro veterans create the shots required to contend.
The stock high ball, one dimensional modern equipment low spin faders were nowhere to be seen.
Gotta shape it in those conditions-great to see.

Well said.
Terrific to see this kind of golf again. These guys are good, really, really good, exceptional. Let’s see them showcase it more often. When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
Aspects of it were seen at Renaissance during the Scottish Open and at Hoylake during The Open and now at Royal Porthcawl too.
So much more enjoyable and fun to watch than the usual bland and boring run of the mill yet hyped-up driver-wedge-putt mens golf tournaments played in perfect weather normally seen on TV these days.
Atb

Well said ATB.

DT,
No need to apologise.
It's just a different product.
Maybe it goes away, or maybe it just stays a niche offering with 2 hours of TV on weekends, smaller purses and late blooming stars.The expenses(purses) are far lower, and certain sponsors probably find value in the demographic they appeal to. (the non "You da man" crowd)
Attending a PGA Tour Champions is low impact joy.
The crowds are minimal, you can park and get very closet to the action, he players are happy to see you and the boorish crowd just isn't there.
But then I rarely if ever attend major league sports-I'd far rather attend a minor league baseball game or high school football game.
I hate the spectacle, hassle, time committment and expense modern major sports has become.
Even The Masters is beginning to lose its shine for me(just too much walking, lines etc.-even to simply get in)-, and lately The Open Championship has become my favorite in person major.


I enjoyed golf far more from a spectating standpoint and as a fan when it WAS a niche sport, and there was less clutter of knuckleheads screaming at events, driving up ticket prices, and making events overly crowded and difficult to attend as a fan with wearing oneself out for an entire day to see just a few shots up close.
"Grow the game" has been good for my career perhaps, but I made the choice to get into it when it was niche, and still would've preferred it stay that way-even if that had meant I ended up selling Real Estate instead and played the game as an amateur.


I tend to watch golf for the courses and the rare times shotmaking is required,and minus the majors, the PGA Tour plays less and less great places.(but I still love a Pebble or a Riviera), even if they bear little resemblance in playing characteristics to their former selves for Tour players.


The LPGA plays at a great relateable scale, but minus the Majors, tend to play uncompelling courses.


Watching crafty veterans play RPC in a howling wind like we often get when visiting in shoulder seasons was just highly compelling to me(and evidently quite a few others according to various social media outlets I follow)
I enjoy the Seniors and the women because they often play the game and courses of size/scale similar to what used to be prevelant on the PGA Tour.
Long hitters such as Harrington, who has worked hard on his driving speed and body, stand out, rather than being lost in a seas of bomb and gouche driver wedge. They eventually age and have to compete in another manner.


One side effect is amateurs(even 18 handicappers)even with all new store bought distance, now think they should play a set of tees that allow them the same wedges the pros have into greens, and we end up with an incredible bifuracted set of starting points so everyone can be "equal", but they're not, That said, live and let live and if these teeing options please people, so be it.


Twitter blows up with math formulas that tell you what tees to play based on your 5 iron distance.
Ironically, my 5 iron distance with a modern game improvement 5 iron approximates my 2 iron distance from 40 years ago, yet the formula suggests I should play courses far shorter than I was 40 years ago. Rendering it a pretty stupid formula which has a lot to do with type of 5 iron one plays. (I don't use a modern game improvement 5 iron as I prefer to control spin not eliminate it)

[Jeff Schley]

Twitter blows up with math formulas that tell you what tees to play based on your 5 iron distance.
Ironically, my 5 iron distance with a modern game improvement 5 iron approximates my 2 iron distance from 40 years ago, yet the formula suggests I should play courses far shorter than I was 40 years ago. Rendering it a pretty stupid formula which has a lot to do with type of 5 iron one plays. (I don't use a modern game improvement 5 iron as I prefer to control spin not eliminate it)

Blatant loft jacking by manufacturers to lower the lofts a club or club and a half over typical lofts from 10-20 years ago. I'm a Ping guy and have had Eye2, G5, G25 and just ordered the G430. Here are the lofts from each 5 iron.

• Eye2 - 28.5 degrees
• G5 - 27 degrees
• G25 - 26 degrees
• G430 - 22 degrees

So the Ping Eye2 which was an iconic iron and I used for 20 years 1985-2005 had a 5 iron loft of 28.5 degrees which is now equivalent to a G430 7iron.

[Wayne_Kozun]

JAt the risk of going off topic, I wonder if the senior tour is approaching (or has already reached) a crossroads. It was conceived as a "star  vehicle," to keep the likes of Palmer, Player, Nicklaus, Casper, Trevino, etc. in the public eye for an extra decade or two. Weiskopf, Irwin, Watson, Couples, etc. followed over the years. These were all players who had won majors and many events in their younger days.

People came out (or turned on the TV) to watch "the heroes of their youth." I have attended several senior tour events in the Bay Area over the years for that reason. Tournament sponsors were eager to sponsor those events so they could rub elbows with the same.

If Tiger was able and willing to play the Senior Tour it would really revitalize it.  He turns 50 in just a couple of years, but I doubt that we will see him play there, other than majors.  If you had Phil and Tiger playing the tour it would draw people.

[jeffwarne]

JAt the risk of going off topic, I wonder if the senior tour is approaching (or has already reached) a crossroads. It was conceived as a "star  vehicle," to keep the likes of Palmer, Player, Nicklaus, Casper, Trevino, etc. in the public eye for an extra decade or two. Weiskopf, Irwin, Watson, Couples, etc. followed over the years. These were all players who had won majors and many events in their younger days.

People came out (or turned on the TV) to watch "the heroes of their youth." I have attended several senior tour events in the Bay Area over the years for that reason. Tournament sponsors were eager to sponsor those events so they could rub elbows with the same.

If Tiger was able and willing to play the Senior Tour it would really revitalize it.  He turns 50 in just a couple of years, but I doubt that we will see him play there, other than majors.  If you had Phil and Tiger playing the tour it would draw people.

There are willing sponsors.
Why do we need to draw more people?
It's a niche offering, a very civilized way to spend a day,Players are enjoying ithe competition and/or making a second career
Can we just stop "growing" everything good?

[David_Tepper]

"If you had Phil and Tiger playing the tour it would draw people."

Wayne -

I agree it would help draw people, but I just don't see that happening. Hard to imagine Tiger wanting to compete against a group of guys he totally dominated in his younger days. What would be the point? What does he need to prove? Hopefully he will not need the money.

One salvation to the senior tour might be to take it to the classic courses that are now too short to host regular tour events. But I don't see that happening either.

DT   

[Thomas Dai]

Why do we need to draw more people?
Can we just stop "growing" everything good?

Very valid points.
Folks have sometimes suggested that Covid was ‘good for golf’ as many more took up the game during that period.
Ignoring for the moment the evil horribleness of the pandemic, I’m far from convinced that the increase in play etc during and since the Covid period has been good for the game. It may have been good for the bank accounts of some involved but jeez what was once a game of relative peace and tranquility with courtesy displayed amongst those involved and ease of teetimes isn’t any more. And as to the rise in what Jeff calls above the knuckleheads and the ‘You the man” brigade their attendance at The Open at Hoylake for example wasn’t edifying, far from it.
Atb

[Jason Topp]

Could there be agreater contrast between RP and the 3 M classic at TPC Twin Cities on the PGA Tour?
POnds and lakes on every hole.

If RP is "golf", TPC Twin Cities is "water" golf.

Let's not bastardize "golf" played in its original form on links land with a disclaimer label, but rather all the more recent forms.

I played 7 holes of the Minnesota course in a scramble and have never ventured back.  They managed to create a Florida housing course in Minnesota. 

[Niall C]

If Tiger was able and willing to play the Senior Tour it would really revitalize it. 

If I was being kind I'd suggest Tiger joining the seniors tour would change it and if I was being honest I'd suggest it would kill it. Or at least kill what makes it so good. For sure the broadcasters would love it and it would bring in a barrowload of money but you'd end up with what makes the PGA Tour a drudge which is watching the same guy hit every shot irrespective of whether they are heading for a 64 or a 84. Rory is the new Tiger except he has less 64's.


Niall

[Kalen Braley]

I think Jeff makes a great point here.

Outside of Augusta National, (cause I've never been and all), in retrospect if I had a chance to spend one weekend at any event this year?  It would have been the Senior Open this past week.  Just terrific stuff and no crowds to compete with to boot. A big Yes!