[Charlie Ray]

Starting this fall I will be building 3 greens at my getaway .  This project is more a middle-aged man playing in the dirt than building a destination club.  I am asking the group for examples of green complexes that meet the 4 criteria below.  For example:  “Hey Charlie, I believe #11 at Sand Valley would be a good model for your #3 Green because…)

The Land:  It is inside the Red River Levee System and is sandy soil with a bit of clay.  It drains exceptionally well.  General Dimensions are 175 yards long and 100 yards wide.  The southern lateral property line is a 30’ foot man made Dune (aka a Levee) with a 15 foot wide gravel road at its foot.  The corresponding lateral boundary is an Oxbow Lake.  The edge is highly vegetated bluff bank.  The Western and Eastern boundaries are undeveloped grazing land (grass bushhogged twice a year) 
Although more acreage is available, the 3 greens will be built utilizing the current routing.  I am also the superintendent/grass mower.  Currently, it takes an hour to mow (once weekly).  And 30 minutes to reel mow the 3 greens and 6 tee boxes.  (Done before play).  I have dug one bunker, and do not maintain it (I am proponent of bunkers as true penalties).
The Land gently slopes at 2-3% degrees from South to North.  It is rumbled. 

Greens #2 and #3 will be built by dumping 15 – 45 cubic yards of sand and shaping with a box blade and by hand. 

Green #4 is built by nature.  I cut it at ˝ inch and the internal contours are excellent. 

Tee Boxes will be at current grade or elevated if needed.  (I plan to incorporate a tee on the high side of green #2)

The Routing:  A Triangle of three greens, par-3 course played clock-wise; then counter clock-wised; forming a six-hole ‘loop.’ 

I am asking for suggestions of 4 green concepts to use as templates/inspiration.  Please list examples of greens that meet the following:



1. ‘Dream Green’   Which green would you want in your backyard if you had 12 teeboxes surrounding the green from varied yardages (30 yards – 150)  (approaches from 360*)

Green #2.  This green will in a corner.  There is a levee and a gravel road abutting it on the high side (Southern).   

Green #3.  I personally enjoy courses that employee a few front to back sloping greens.  This green is also in a corner with the lake bluff on one side. 

Green #4.  A green played from opposite directions.  The Loop (Michigan) has many examples because of its nature.  (my favorite is Black #16/Red #2)  I believe this group can identify some green complexes that would be a joy to play from opposite directions even though they never receive play from 180*.

I will attempt (again) to try and post a graphic of the above.  here is a link to a rough sketch
https://imgbb.com/kHjYztd

[Tom_Doak]

It's a fun name for a course, anyway.  Do you have a logo?

[Matt Schoolfield]

The link to the sketch is very small in the post, so I've taken the liberty of cleaning it up and posting it here for everyone:

[Charlie Ray]

Tom,
 
Yes I have a logo, and scorecard, pictures, and aerial views...  maybe, Matt could PM me instructions of how to post an image, I could try.  (I guess that's what a degree in Ancient Philosophy gets me)   


Matt, thanks for posting the pic from the link! 

[Matt Schoolfield]

Matt could PM me instructions of how to post an image, I could try.  (I guess that's what a degree in Ancient Philosophy gets me)   

No problem! You should have gotten a degree in Analytic Philosophy like I did 

I've sent your a PM with fairly detailed instructions

[Charlie Goerges]

Maybe your second green could replicate Riviera’s sixth. The one with the bunker in the middle of it. It is also in a corner of the property like yours is. It also has bunkers on 3 sides in addition to the bunker in the middle.

[Charlie Ray]

Charlie,
Thanks for the suggestion, looking at Riviera's 6th from above, I was surprised to see that there is no pin-able space behind the bunker.  It does seem to separate the green into 4 quadrants: front right, front left, back left, back right.   It also looks like it would  have 4 quadrants if played from the 7th Forward Tee; which is what I am searching for:  Green Complexes that are equally compelling from a 90' approach angle.   

[Kyle Casella]

What a cool project.


Green 1 seems tricky because you need to be able to approach from every side. Maybe something that has a central feature like 16 at Sleepy Hollow.


For green #2 a lion's mouth template (Sand Hills 8, CC of Charleston 16, Cabot Cliffs 2) would be really neat. It's basically what you have drawn and somewhat akin to 6 at Riviera which was mentioned.


I wasn't clear if you were looking for ideas for #4 or not but it feels like a biarritz would be really excellent for green 4 if the slope is not too severe. You can play in both directions and have lots of fun with the hole locations and different shot types.


Another interesting option there is 17 at St Andrews given the angle and the option to play from both sides. The slope is a bit different but I think a narrowish green with some trouble on one side would be cool.

[Matt Schoolfield]

Green #2, with a bunker in the bottom-right, seems like it could be played as a reverse-Eden hole from the right tees, and a very short reverse-redan from the tees below it, if a hill were built on the bottom left. Granted, the reverse-redan concept wouldn't work at that distance, unless you insisted people play the short hole as a punch shot, or places a tree directly in front of the tee to block any high launch angles.

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