The greens were 8.5 on Sunday at the Scottish Open

[Tom_Doak]

Did it ruin the golf?  Sure didn’t seem to.


I didn’t get to see any player griping - you don’t hear much after Sunday rounds because they only interview the guys who played best.  So I don’t really know how the rest of the field felt about it.  I’d love to hear.


Discuss amongst yourselves - I’m on my way home today.

[Paul Jones]

Lack of TV coverage was disappointing... you could follow the scores online, but no TV coverage until after the event was over. 

[ward peyronnin]

well since the ball was apparently moving when at rest in the fairway that seems to have been a good call.dont kno what the players said but every putt I saw rolled well end over end and how can one take issue when the winner rolls in a 20 footeri think how tte wind was affecting the putting line was much more in the players heads- esp those like T Hatton who was missing some makeable putts  playing in

[Thomas Dai]

Seemed a sensible decision.
If speeds were generally slower it would allow hole positions to be placed in a greater number of locations and more interesting, challenging, exciting even positions at that. Speed isn’t everything and as speed increases so the maintenance and input costs go up with likely corresponding increases in subscriptions and greenfees in an already expensive game.
Atb

[Tim Martin]

Lack of TV coverage was disappointing... you could follow the scores online, but no TV coverage until after the event was over.

Paul-I was able to watch the finish(last 5 holes) in real time on the CBS Sports App although I don’t know how long that was available for. I thought the deep field, conditions and golf course provided for a compelling finish. The closing holes offer plenty of excitement and as for the green speeds they appeared to be spot on with the amount of slope/contour.

[Michael Chadwick]

Though I didn't see much of Sunday, watching pros sink mid to long putts with multiple feet of break makes for terrific golf television! An entertaining amount of contour out there for a professional event. 

[Alex Miller]

Did it ruin the golf?  Sure didn’t seem to.


I didn’t get to see any player griping - you don’t hear much after Sunday rounds because they only interview the guys who played best.  So I don’t really know how the rest of the field felt about it.  I’d love to hear.


Discuss amongst yourselves - I’m on my way home today.

Seemed like the speed at the beginning of the round before the greens started to dry up, but surely in the 8.5-9.5 range for the day. Absolutely played well and I thought the tournament organizers did a great job of course set up, management, and presenting the best test they could in the hand they were dealt from weather/wind.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Did the slowness reduce the firmness? (I saw none of it). If it didn’t then great… my experience on links courses tends to be that fastness and firmness go hand in hand on greens…. So there ends up being a bit of a trade-off for contour versus stopping power… slower greens tend to make my iron shots look better as I can fly them closer and therefore have more margin for error. Plus you get more contour. But perhaps less ground game.

[David_Tepper]

"Lack of TV coverage was disappointing... you could follow the scores online, but no TV coverage until after the event was over."


The tape-delayed TV coverage was due to the decision to move up the tee times by several hours on both Saturday and Sunday in order to avoid the heavy weather. The U.S. networks broadcasting the event could not alter their schedules to accommodate the change in tee times.

That being said, the U.S. broadcast covered each day's play at great length. The Golf Channel rebroadcast several hours of play each evening. As a practical matter, I am not sure the TV networks could have done much more. 

[Kalen Braley]

I missed it too, but then I watched the 13 minute highlight reel and it pretty much did the trick.  May be my new go to instead of watching the usual PGA Tour broadcasts where its maybe 5-10 minutes of actual golf shots per hour these days?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EcS30L0-pk

[Tony_Muldoon]

Apropos of nothing at all


Am I the only one that thinks the 18th at The Renaisance reminds them of the 18th at Holinwell?

[Jim Hoak]

Green speeds were great.
One of the most overrated things in golf are super-speedy greens.  Slows down play, hard on the grass, etc.  It is just the macho thing of members' bragging about their fast greens that makes courses overdo it.  Getting the speeds right and reasonable is the smart and adult way to go.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Is it Ren-NAY-saunce like the announcers said, or the regular  (US) pronunciation of the word?

[John Challenger]

Let's hope it's the spark for a new evolution in golf course design. Slower green speeds and more complex green architecture!

[Tom_Doak]

Let's hope it's the spark for a new evolution in golf course design. Slower green speeds and more complex green architecture!

Yeah, that’s not gonna happen.  Green speeds are the product of peer pressure.  If your neighbor had faster greens and the golfers leave their putts short on your greens the day after, you hear about it, negatively.  It would have to be an industry wide move to change it, and the industry is more interested in raising speeds and prices.


They started at 9.5 in Scotland because they are trying to match the green speeds for Hoylake next week, and help the US Tour players adjust their strokes.  That’s what our role is.

[Mark_Fine]

I think we all know, green speeds on links courses are kept slower because of the wind. If they were rolling any faster yesterday, the tournament would have been suspended because the balls would not be staying at rest on the greens.  Speeds will always be slower on these courses so the good news is we won’t have to worry about seeing Hoylake or any other links venue with greens rolling at 12…It is a matter of physics and friction.

[Kyle Harris]

I think we all know, green speeds on links courses are kept slower because of the wind. If they were rolling any faster yesterday, the tournament would have been suspended because the balls would not be staying at rest on the greens.  Speeds will always be slower on these courses so the good news is we won’t have to worry about seeing Hoylake or any other links venue with greens rolling at 12…It is a matter of physics and friction.

They’ve literally been measuring green speeds in a tunnel for the past few Open Championships because of the effect of the wind.


Go off, though.

[Niall C]

For once I'm in agreement with Mark.


It was interesting that the commentators on UK TV were of the view that the players were struggling to get to grips with the slower pace and were leaving a lot of putts short but I reckon they were just naturally putting defensively because of the wind. Neither MacIntyre or McIlroy seemed to have that problem.


As an aside, I found interesting the comment that the organisers had expected the 8th green (normally the 14th ?) to be the worst affected by the wind. I'd have thought either of the new holes by the water would have been affected more.


Niall

[Mark_Fine]

Niall,
That’s a first for you. Now let’s see if we can get a first from Tom Doak.  About time you guys came around   

[Duncan Cheslett]

Is it Ren-NAY-saunce like the announcers said, or the regular  (US) pronunciation of the word?

I'm puzzled. How else would one pronounce Renaissance?


It is after all, a French word.

[Charlie Goerges]

Is it Ren-NAY-saunce like the announcers said, or the regular  (US) pronunciation of the word?

I'm puzzled. How else would one pronounce Renaissance?


It is after all, a French word.

In the US it's often REN-a-sonce.

[Daryl David]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2DR3enpRv8

[Tom_Doak]

It was interesting that the commentators on UK TV were of the view that the players were struggling to get to grips with the slower pace and were leaving a lot of putts short but I reckon they were just naturally putting defensively because of the wind. Neither MacIntyre or McIlroy seemed to have that problem.

As an aside, I found interesting the comment that the organisers had expected the 8th green (normally the 14th ?) to be the worst affected by the wind. I'd have thought either of the new holes by the water would have been affected more.

The wind was from the west so the holes down by the water are somewhat sheltered by the hillside.  The greens of the 5th, 6th, 8th and 9th all sit up from their surroundings and are completely exposed to the west wind.  Rory bogeyed three of the four of them.


The point of slowing the greens for the Scottish Open is to allow the U.S. players to get used to the slower speeds at The Open the next week.  It takes a few days to get a feel for the pace when your stroke is fine-tuned for greens at 12 every week.  McIlroy and MacIntyre both have a little more of that in their blood.  Last year, don't forget, Colin Morikawa struggled getting his putts to the hole at the Scottish Open, added weight to his putter to help him adjust, and went on to win at Sandwich.

[jeffwarne]

Green speeds were great.
One of the most overrated things in golf are super-speedy greens.  Slows down play, hard on the grass, etc.  It is just the macho thing of members' bragging about their fast greens that makes courses overdo it.  Getting the speeds right and reasonable is the smart and adult way to go.

We have a winner.
add in the fact greens can have tilt and slope, not stupid flattish tiers.
This increased tilt and slope will affect an approach more, rendering angles less obsolete.
And pins can be placed on slopes

Greens at 8.5 allow a lot of slope to be utilized, require judgement(to adjust to a 30 footer on a large slope uphill vs. downhill. They also require a solid strike.

Adjusting to green speed is a skill that is rarely tested these days.
But really isn't that difficult.
The fact that every week the Tour plays at roughly the same speed(12ish) holds some player's skill development back IMHO.
Pretty sure Brooks Koepka developed a lot of his Major skil from playing the various speed courses and variable conditions in Europe.
I often play at a course greens that run at 6, though my home club runs at 12 plus, and as high as 14.
Take a bigger stroke-maintain the same tempo.

[Sean_A]

Is it Ren-NAY-saunce like the announcers said, or the regular  (US) pronunciation of the word?

I'm puzzled. How else would one pronounce Renaissance?

It is after all, a French word.

Come on Duncan. The Brits butcher their fair share of French words. Say garage and filet .

The greens did look slow for Renaissance. The times I have played the course 10ish was more the speed, some of the quicker links greens in GB&I. It's a good thing too because I think balls would have rolled on greens if they were 10ish.

Ciao