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David Harshbarger

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Re: Scotland Advice - Open Comp vs Less Travel
« Reply #75 on: July 02, 2023, 02:21:32 PM »
Per James Reader.  Goswick is great.  Site of the last pre-Covid BUDA.
Goswick is a better course than Dunbar (but Dunbar is very good).  But that extra 90 minutes of driving may swing the decision if it were me.


Having never seen that area an extra 90 minutes driving down the coast doesn’t seem too onerous.


Two other courses I’ve looked at, one following Dunbar and one while we are in St Andrews are Alnmouth Village and Scotscrag.


Our resident tour maven, Mr. Arble, speaks highly of Alnmouth Village in a thread on the best 9 hole courses in GB. You would be well served if you could only ever play courses Sean recommends IMO. That course is further down the road though and will probably have to wait.


Scotscrag is a recommendation from Marty in another travel advice thread. If we don’t make it on the Old Course I will give serious consideration to Scotscrag.
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

David Harshbarger

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Re: Scotland Advice - Open Comp vs Less Travel
« Reply #76 on: July 07, 2023, 04:32:14 AM »
Kilspindie, a gentle course, and a wonderful pass-time esp. for the jet-lag set. A course scaled to a different era with small greens and narrow playing corridors.


North Berwick West Links. It was quite too much to process what with the unfamiliarity of a caddie, the challenge of adapting to rental clubs esp the wedges, the history, and the newness. Reflecting the next morning I was delighted to see the thought pop into my head that I’d like another crack at it.


The Glen Club / North Berwick East Links. It wasn’t too much to process the views! Omg what a stunning setting from Bass rock to the oil rigs on the horizon. Good to be related to mountain goats here. Another fun course and quite rewarding and a very good round with plenty of challenge though mostly right in front of you.


More to come.
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scotland Advice - Open Comp vs Less Travel
« Reply #77 on: July 07, 2023, 05:21:47 AM »
David,
Check your PMs.


All,
David is coming to Ladybank on Tuesday. We have space for one other. Anyone available?

Cheers,
MB.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2023, 05:28:32 AM by Marty Bonnar »
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Sean_A

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Re: Scotland Advice - Open Comp vs Less Travel
« Reply #78 on: July 14, 2023, 03:51:27 AM »
Itinerary:

Day 1: Kilspindie
Day 2: North Berwick & The Glen
Day 3: Dunbar & open
Day 4: Gullane #2 &#3
Day 5: Musselburgh Old & Crail Balcomie
Day 6: Lottery and/or camp out for Old Course - backup Eden & Scotscrag or Jubilee
Day 7: Ladybank

3 or 4 bucket list courses and really no filler except maybe backup if we are shut out of the old course.

Any ideas for a Friday afternoon after a 10am round at Dunbar? Looking at the weather “huddle by a fire” is acceptable.

Our paths nearly crossed. From 1 July onwards we were at

Goswick
North Berwick
Gullane 3
Panmure
TOC hit the ballot
Kinghorn

Sadly, a game at FBD's gaff was cancelled due to extreme stupidity on the part of a travelling mate.

Biggest surprise for me is Panmure. Stunning turf. A handful of top holes.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scotland Advice - Open Comp vs Less Travel
« Reply #79 on: July 14, 2023, 06:14:44 AM »
Panmure is the best 14-hole course in Scotland! The Hogan hole and the 12th worth the green fee alone.
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scotland Advice - Open Comp vs Less Travel
« Reply #80 on: July 14, 2023, 08:29:28 AM »
Panmure is the best 14-hole course in Scotland! The Hogan hole and the 12th worth the green fee alone.
F.


What are the 4 you would bin ? I've only played it a few times, once I think with you, and apart from perhaps 17 (from what I remember) and 18 I don't think there is a hole that I would say is not worthy.


Niall

Mark Pearce

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Re: Scotland Advice - Open Comp vs Less Travel
« Reply #81 on: July 14, 2023, 08:55:37 AM »
Panmure is the best 14-hole course in Scotland! The Hogan hole and the 12th worth the green fee alone.
F.


What are the 4 you would bin ? I've only played it a few times, once I think with you, and apart from perhaps 17 (from what I remember) and 18 I don't think there is a hole that I would say is not worthy.


Niall
First two, last two is the argument, I think.  Certainly those 4 are on the flattest and least interesting land.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scotland Advice - Open Comp vs Less Travel
« Reply #82 on: July 14, 2023, 09:26:02 AM »
Mark


I suspect you are correct for the reason you state but have to say I really like the first couple of holes. They remind me of the start at Formby and indeed the old first hole at Renaissance. One of the greens (from what I remember) at Panmure has a slight spine running through it and reminds me of the Renaissance green. Nice and subtle.


Niall

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scotland Advice - Open Comp vs Less Travel
« Reply #83 on: July 14, 2023, 10:59:35 AM »
I’m just a grumpy Old Hector.
 ;D
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scotland Advice - Open Comp vs Less Travel New
« Reply #84 on: July 14, 2023, 09:05:37 PM »
Itinerary:

Day 1: Kilspindie
Day 2: North Berwick & The Glen
Day 3: Dunbar & open
Day 4: Gullane #2 &#3
Day 5: Musselburgh Old & Crail Balcomie
Day 6: Lottery and/or camp out for Old Course - backup Eden & Scotscrag or Jubilee
Day 7: Ladybank

3 or 4 bucket list courses and really no filler except maybe backup if we are shut out of the old course.

Any ideas for a Friday afternoon after a 10am round at Dunbar? Looking at the weather “huddle by a fire” is acceptable.

Our paths nearly crossed. From 1 July onwards we were at

Goswick
North Berwick
Gullane 3
Panmure
TOC hit the ballot
Kinghorn

Sadly, a game at FBD's gaff was cancelled due to extreme stupidity on the part of a travelling mate.

Biggest surprise for me is Panmure. Stunning turf. A handful of top holes.

Ciao


Sean, would’ve loved to meet you in person as we share (or I copped) the same sensibilities!


The final itinerary ended as:


Kilspindie
North Berwick
The Glen
Dunbarrr
Goswick
Gullane #2
Gullane #3
Crail
The Old Course
Ladybank


Marty was a wonderfully gracious host even in the light of our at the last minute arrival at Ladybank.


10 rounds in 7 days walking was in the end an excellent way to spend our week. The driving was manageable and after awhile fun - we don’t post 60 mph on little roads like that and the roundabouts morph into chicanes if you take them with gusto!


The Old Course - I am in love with her. My caddie there both caddied for and was caddied for by Tom Doak 20 years apart. In a surreal moment he espied my 12 club MacKenzie bag, tabbed me as his man, put away the trolley and hoisted my bag on his shoulder for 18. I think he was the only caddie out there not pushing a trolley. On his second loop and with a foot ailment we moved slowly - he telling stories of old days and old names, me afloat and awash in the moment the vibe the je ne sais quoi of St Andrews.


TOC is slow to reveal her mysteries, that much was clear. The novelty and the pace and the conversation made any detailed assessment impossible but one experience stood out. On the back nine around 13 or 14 I think I was 35 feet from the hole in short grass on a downslope facing two bowls and a descending green. I could not imagine how to get the ball close. No putt no chip could I see navigating that land to the hole. Glorious!


Highlights of play were a 6h to 12’ on the Eden with the pin on the back right shelf; a 3w from 202 to 30’ on the road hole; and a 6h coming home that hit the pin, settled to 15’, eliciting applause from all around from the balconies of the hotel from the green - truly the golf moment of my life as a 14 handicap. A moment money couldn’t buy - as Jack Nicklaus said recently I just had to hit a shot!


Dunbarrr - what a great course. What a great course with the massive stone wall (built to keep out the deer?!) on one side and the North Sea the other. Every hole engaging. Delightful.


Goswick has fantastic greens. Roly poly greens. We spent 5 minutes just rolling putts off the sideboard at 15 it was just that cool. The wind wasn’t cool it was cruel and 7-12 was a death march into that gale. Continuing a long streak of exemplary long club play a 3w into 9 setup an easy par. Putting 20 degrees up and away from the front pin on 5 led to a kick in birdie as well.


Goswick also showcased the remarkable rail system of the UK. We started counting the trains that streamed by but after 7-8 still on the front we gave up.


My son’s favorite hole was the 15th at Gullane #3. He two putted from 176 yards!


We agreed that Gullane would be an ideal member club. Wonderful practice area and range and the courses we played alone would keep us entertained and challenged.


Gullane was a good reason to eschew the top shelf tour of Scotland. We saw many families and locals along with UK tourists on those links. The normalcy made the quality of the course all the more impressive.


Crail was a labor. 20 mph steady winds carried the screech of brakes the revving engines from a nearby race track to our ears with remarkable clarity. Along with the howl of the wind itself the sonic scape was innervating for all 18.


As with most of the courses the par 3s there were man sized especially into the wind. After butchering the famous 5th another stuffed 3w led to birdie on 6. Pace of play on 7 could be improved as we waited for the group in front to finish and clear 8 green.


9 is a top notch 4 using OB at the green to and a giant bunker to force the question do you go right for the angle or left and take on the bunker? In a parsimonious routing decision 10 uses that same OB wall to again force a decision on how to safely take on the penalty - early leaving the approach to play away or late bringing OB in on the approach.


The par 3s at Crail are outstanding. 13 asked us to carry a chasm and climb a rock face to get to the 210 yard flag into the wind no less. The remit: make a shot.


14 going back downhill was also complexities by the wind but this time the challenge how to pick the right club. The sleepered bunker in front must be flown as a ricochet of those sleepers can come to no good. But long is rough and a tough recovery. Drop shot par 3s are a challenge to club but add in a 20 mph helping wind, and the longer air time and the math gets tricky!


16 reprises the long 3 uphill over a rock face, this time at 180. I don’t have a 180 uphill into the wind club per se so I thinned a 4h to 20’. Kickin par.


While the wind and the track made Crail draining it is clearly an excellent course and I would play it again.


The week had an operatic flow - a taste of links to start at Spindie. 3 solid days of 36 holes in and around East Lothian. The transition to St Andrews and the trial that was Crail all leading to the penultimate crescendo that was TOC.


Ladybank was a perfect ending not least for the generosity of Marty. Thank you again!


If someone asks you to play Ladybank there is only one correct answer: yes and what is our tee time? It offers a perfectly fun and challenging game in a lovely park. The ball bounces and rolls as on a links, and a round there is sure to be a good afternoon in the out of doors.


While we did some booking our B&B hostess secured tee times at many courses and passed on the savings to us. Thanks Emma of the Golf Lodge that I highly recommend in NB. The breakfast was to die for!


My son has the expertise and memnory of a lifetime now. On the Old Course his caddie stuck to him like glue and we hardly spoke a word the hole round. It was an apt metaphor for this coming of age trip. He is already half out the door to college and away from his parents - on to his life. I am good with that.


Thanks to everyone here who helped make this a great experience. I am blessed to have a voice here and to benefit from the generosity of you all. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2023, 08:02:08 AM by David Harshbarger »
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scotland Advice - Open Comp vs Less Travel
« Reply #85 on: July 14, 2023, 10:31:29 PM »
Random thoughts:


Pairings:


NB: fixed income traders: we buy. We sell. Sometimes we sell then buy. It’s been a good year to sell then buy. You would sell his golf game as well.


Dunbarrr: Scion of an Indian mineral trading co: mid 30s. Took up golf 5 years ago and now plays out of Royal Calcutta. Put together an East Lothian jaunt on a summer family vacation. Played Kilspindie, NB, Gullane and Dunbarrr based on YouTube research. Happy as could be.


TOC: Kansans. Businessmen? Benghazi bag - keeping the fight alive! Some really good putts and some really bad wipes. Golf can be frustrating but Kansas cool held the day.


Food: Scottish cuisine - fried pizza is disgusting people! Wake up!


Black pudding: no


Haggis: Mums Comfort Food in Edinburgh delivered a tasty haggis on mash. Also a tasty shepherds pie. Recommend.


Chicken Wings at Dunvegan: that is not Nashville hot sauce then again that’s not how you cook wings either.


Indian in St Andrews: fantastic meal. Maybe the greatest legacy of the Empire is the quality international cuisine. Recommend.


Mac & Cheese at Ladybank. Mmmmmm. Dip with fries for extra goodness. Recommend.


Drinking on course: not really evident except on high end courses. Crail had a welcome kit with a bag of whiskey and TOC had booze at the turn. I’m guessing that’s to cater to the Americans. Frankly the deemphasis on booze at the local courses is a welcome difference. Golf is engaging enough isn’t it?


Seasoning: please!


The wind: OMG!


 I can’t imagine you can play well consistently on these courses if you can’t work the ball in the wind.


Do people put cotton in their ears in those winds? The howling was driving me nuts.


Driving: what a blast. I love the country roads sitting between hedgerows though the cinematic image that kept coming to mind was the opening of Lawrence of Arabia.


Roundabouts are an underused traffic control in the US.


Loved the A1 drive down to Berwick-upon-Tweed. Great views.


Cyclists: these people are nuts. The roads have no shoulders and only just accommodate 2 cars. Maybe it was the Tour de France effect but the roads around North Berwick were overfull with cyclists imo.


The Scottish Character in 4 parts:


Golf: self-abuse with random moments of bliss.


Haggis: The least desirable parts of the sheep transmogrified into a national emblem.


The Links: save the arable land for food production then use the dunes that run down to the sea for a game. Later, maximize the value of that land with golf investments.


Castles:  a testimonial to the hostility and futility that explains Scotlands place in the golf world.
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Hope to see you again soon, Scotland!
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scotland Advice - Open Comp vs Less Travel
« Reply #86 on: July 14, 2023, 11:21:17 PM »
David well done. Excellent detail and descriptions, was almost like I was there with you in your writing. Sure you will be back soon.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

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