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John Bouffard

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Hal Purdy
« on: July 07, 2023, 03:34:32 PM »
What do the architects on this forum know about Hal Purdy? He designed many golf courses in my part of NJ and I believe several others in the surrounding NY tri-state area. I don't know of any courses he designed which are highly regarded architecturally, but I was surprised to learn how much design he actually did up here, and wondered what people in the business knew about him and thought of his work.

Matt Schoolfield

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Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2023, 03:42:00 PM »
Unfortunately in the database I'm building, I only have one course designed by him (Somerset Hills Country Club, Bernardsville, NJ)
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David_Tepper

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Brian Finn

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Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2023, 04:26:00 PM »
Unfortunately in the database I'm building, I only have one course designed by him (Somerset Hills Country Club, Bernardsville, NJ)
Hi Matt,
I don't doubt that Purdy could have done some work at Somerset Hills at some point.  I think he may have worked for RTJ, Sr. somewhere along the way.  Having said that, you should check your database to be sure you have AW Tillinghast as the primary architect for Somerset Hills. 
New for '24: Monifieth x2, Montrose x2, Panmure, Carnoustie x3, Scotscraig, Kingsbarns, Elie, Dumbarnie, Lundin, Belvedere, The Loop x2, Forest Dunes, Arcadia Bluffs x2, Kapalua Plantation, Windsong Farm, Minikahda...

Matt Schoolfield

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Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2023, 04:28:51 PM »
Unfortunately in the database I'm building, I only have one course designed by him (Somerset Hills Country Club, Bernardsville, NJ)
Hi Matt,
I don't doubt that Purdy could have done some work at Somerset Hills at some point.  I think he may have worked for RTJ, Sr. somewhere along the way.  Having said that, you should check your database to be sure you have AW Tillinghast as the primary architect for Somerset Hills.

Hrmm... I will change that now, (edit: I see now that Tillinghast is listed as the primary architect), but just so everyone knows, it's a wiki, so anyone can edit it at any time (no membership required). Just click the edit button and make changes.

Note that all the changes are recorded into a history, and can be reversed with a single click, so that any vandalism is easier to undo than it is to do.
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Brian Finn

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Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2023, 04:32:06 PM »
Unfortunately in the database I'm building, I only have one course designed by him (Somerset Hills Country Club, Bernardsville, NJ)
Hi Matt,
I don't doubt that Purdy could have done some work at Somerset Hills at some point.  I think he may have worked for RTJ, Sr. somewhere along the way.  Having said that, you should check your database to be sure you have AW Tillinghast as the primary architect for Somerset Hills.

Hrmm... I will change that now, (edit: I see now that Tillinghast is listed as the primary architect), but just so everyone knows, it's a wiki, so anyone can edit it at any time (no membership required). Just click the edit button and make changes.

Note that all the changes are recorded into a history, and can be reversed with a single click, so that any vandalism is easier to undo than it is to do.
Oh, that is very cool.  I will bump my list up against your wiki to see if i can contribute anything.
New for '24: Monifieth x2, Montrose x2, Panmure, Carnoustie x3, Scotscraig, Kingsbarns, Elie, Dumbarnie, Lundin, Belvedere, The Loop x2, Forest Dunes, Arcadia Bluffs x2, Kapalua Plantation, Windsong Farm, Minikahda...

Matt Schoolfield

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Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2023, 04:39:00 PM »
Oh, that is very cool.  I will bump my list up against your wiki to see if i can contribute anything.
Many thanks, just please be patient with the site. It can be temperamental, and is very much a work in progress, but I promise I'm doing my best!
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Mike Worth

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Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2023, 06:36:44 PM »
Unfortunately in the database I'm building, I only have one course designed by him (Somerset Hills Country Club, Bernardsville, NJ)
Hi Matt,
I don't doubt that Purdy could have done some work at Somerset Hills at some point.  I think he may have worked for RTJ, Sr. somewhere along the way.  Having said that, you should check your database to be sure you have AW Tillinghast as the primary architect for Somerset Hills.


His online bio says he was RTJ Sr’s construction chief in the mid-50s.


Having grown up in the Northeast, I’ve played a few of his courses, although I don’t remember any of them off the top of my head.


They were workaday courses — not good, not terriblly bad.  One could describe his courses as what you’d find at the local small town country club. 



I think he did one of the 3 courses at Fiddlers Elbow in New Jersey.


Despite the averageness, those courses are important — the type of courses where many learn to play golf — maybe with your Dad, and then move on to something better

But then, in 1996 I read the Confidential Guide and saw Tom Doak describe one of his courses as a “Hal Purdy contraption.”  That’s something you really can’t get out of your mind! Lol.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2023, 09:00:12 PM by Mike Worth »

Phil Young

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Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2023, 10:18:48 PM »
John, according to Cornish & Whitten's book, The Golf Course, He designed a LOT of courses in Connecticut, Indiana, Kentucky, New Jersey & New York. He also remodeled courses in California, Connecticut, Indiana, New Jersey, New York & Ohio. Evidently Mal Purdy (I assume his son) worked on a number of these for him. There are far too many to list them all, so if you send me your email address I'll scan the pages from their book and send it to you.

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2023, 10:27:43 AM »
Did I miss the link to Matt's wiki?
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Matt Schoolfield

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Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2023, 11:42:54 AM »
Did I miss the link to Matt's wiki?


Here is a link to the front page: https://golfcourse.wiki/



Here is a link to Hal Purdy’s page: https://golfcourse.wiki/architect/Hal_Purdy
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Steve Lapper

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Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2023, 04:51:12 PM »
Unfortunately in the database I'm building, I only have one course designed by him (Somerset Hills Country Club, Bernardsville, NJ)




Hal Purdy had noting meaningful to do whatsoever with Somerset Hills CC. He maybe, at best, caddied  :-\  there at some time.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2023, 06:33:08 AM by Steve Lapper »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Matt Schoolfield

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Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2023, 09:54:44 PM »
Hal Purdy had noting meaningful to do whatsoever with Somerset Hills CC. He maybe, at best, caddied there at some time.


Top100 references him working on the course in ‘56 and ‘68. I’m obviously no authority, but that’s the reference I’m working with. If anyone is a member of the club with access to the history, please set the record straight.



https://www.top100golfcourses.com/golf-course/somerset-hills/32517
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David Cronan

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Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2023, 05:53:42 PM »
When Louisville was home, I was a member of a club that Hal Purdy was somehow involved. Club records were spotty, to say the least, but the original course was designed by George Davies and it went belly up twice during the Depression. An heiress of the Bingham fortune came to own the property and sometime in the 50s or so, she sold the property to some men who were members of other clubs (mostly LCC) who wanted a "country" club, as well.


At this point, I believe Hal Purdy was brought in to design the new 18 holes.


Are are the noteworthy things:


1. It had/has a healthy membership and when I was a member, most of the time had a waitlist; however, very few played golf which leads us to...


2. No tee times.


3. Rounds that lasted a minute over 4 hours were frowned upon.


4. We used to play an 8some money game on Saturday mornings and never played in over 4 hours. Ready golf and one pretty much had to pay attention to one's surroundings, lest you take a Titleist to the melon as balls were constantly flying. Figuring out the bets usually took at least two rounds of drinks and lunch.


5. Nothing really of note, architecturally.


6. When I was President, we parted ways with your long-time Supt and brought in a very talented young man from Philly Cricket Club, Stephen Babcock, who did an AMAZING job.


7. We hired Kevin Hargrave (Keith Foster's Lead Design Associate) to draw up a Master Plan and put into the by-laws, as a bunch of rather hideous changes to the course had taken place over the years.


8. HLCC merged with Big Spring Country Club about 9-10 years ago, creating two "campuses" and 36 holes. Apparently it's going well.


9. HLCC is the course that Justin Thomas grew up on as his father, Mike, was the longtime Head Pro.


*Kind of a funny story....when Justin was becoming fairly famous, my son and his friends (10 years Justin's junior) were asking about just how good was Justin. I told them that, yeah, he was an All-American and won some Pro Tournaments and millions of dollars, but go take a look at the Club Champion plaque and tell me if you see his name. About 10 minutes later, they came back to the pool (where I was sitting) and quite wide-eyed, they all remarked how good I must be because my name appeared a few times on the plaque, and Justin's was nowhere to be found. I was their hero, for about 2-3 weeks, until they figured out that Justin had never played in a Club Championship.


Hey, if you're not going to win Father of the Year, why play for 2nd? LOL

Tom_Doak

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Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2023, 07:48:29 PM »
Hal Purdy had noting meaningful to do whatsoever with Somerset Hills CC. He maybe, at best, caddied there at some time.

Top100 references him working on the course in ‘56 and ‘68. I’m obviously no authority, but that’s the reference I’m working with. If anyone is a member of the club with access to the history, please set the record straight.

https://www.top100golfcourses.com/golf-course/somerset-hills/32517


My associates and I have consulted at Somerset Hills for a bunch of years now.  I've never heard Hal Purdy's name come up.  However, they did lengthen the 10th hole into a par-5 at some point, and that might be his contribution.


Fortunately, they didn't change much else.

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2023, 10:22:03 AM »
If Hal was like the rest of us, he probably listed it if he was called for a one day consult on a minor issue. 


Since this thread, I have been wracking my brain and have no memory of meeting Hal at an early ASGCA meeting of mine.  It says Hal "served" for only 4 years after his election to ASGCA, so I probably missed him. Ditto for Mal, his son, who was a member until 1983, and my first meeting was in 1980, so I may have crossed paths with him, but again, no memory.

I do have some memories of other old NE guys, like Xen Hassenplug, who I remember enjoying talking to.  I also recall Jack Kidwell, Al Zikorus, one of the Gordons, and Ferdinand Garbin.  It was always like a history lesson talking to them.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2023, 10:23:37 AM by Jeff_Brauer »
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

MCirba

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Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2023, 02:01:36 PM »
Looking at HistoricAerials.com, it seems that the 10th hole revision happened somewhere between 1931 and 1953, likely the aforementioned work of William Gordon.   It's probably the weakest hole on the course but I'm not sure if it's long, uphill par four predecessor was particularly stellar.


Cornish & Whitten also attribute something Hal Purdy did at Somerset Hills, but don't provide a year.   The specificity of the dates on the Top 100 site seem to indicate "something" was done, but it may have been as simple as an irrigation plan, or some such thing as very few changes have taken place to the golf holes over the course of time, thankfully.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Matt Frey, PGA

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Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2023, 02:12:38 PM »
I believe Purdy built the NLE Apple Ridge in Mahwah, N.J. I played it once, way back in 2008, and remember enjoying it. I'm not sure there was anything architecturally significant there, but it was a fun golf course well-routed on decent terrain. Sadly, McMansions now occupy the land where the course once stood.

MCirba

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Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2023, 02:14:11 PM »
Probably based on my location as much as my golf course OCD, I've played 24 courses where at least half the holes were designed by Hal Purdy (some with son Mal), and another 8 where he did some modifications.   


They generally range from a Doak Scale 0 (in the case of the horrendous Mount Airy Lodge) and 1 (in the cramped, claustrophobic case of Knoll East) to perhaps as high as 5 in the case of Flanders Valley and Sunset Valley, both in northern NJ.   Like RTJ Sr, Ed Ault, Geoff Cornish and some others in the burgeoning course building of the 1950s and 1960s, there is definitely a focus on quantity and maintainability versus creative, naturally integrated artistry.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

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John Mayhugh

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Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2023, 03:50:39 PM »
When Louisville was home, I was a member of a club that Hal Purdy was somehow involved. Club records were spotty, to say the least, but the original course was designed by George Davies and it went belly up twice during the Depression. An heiress of the Bingham fortune came to own the property and sometime in the 50s or so, she sold the property to some men who were members of other clubs (mostly LCC) who wanted a "country" club, as well.


8. HLCC merged with Big Spring Country Club about 9-10 years ago, creating two "campuses" and 36 holes. Apparently it's going well.



David,

The merger has gone pretty well. Having two courses has enabled the club to shut Harmony down beginning tomorrow for regrassing of all of the greens and some regrading of the most severe ones (4, 10, 13, & 15) so there will be more hole locations given today's green speeds. The extensively poa greens will be replaced with 007XL Super Bent. There will also be some green expansion back to earlier footprints. The course will be closed until May. Also adding quite a few new tees.


Great club championship story.

Ed Galbavy

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Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2023, 06:31:20 PM »
I lived next to Warrenbrook Golf Course growing up.  I can remember the surveyors laying out their stakes back around 1965 when I was around First Grade.  Growing up, I can remember that Hal Purdy was the architect of record.  Warrenbrook was a private club until around 1977 or so, and Somerset County bought it at turned it into a public course.

Stewart Abramson

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Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2023, 10:24:41 AM »
What do the architects on this forum know about Hal Purdy? He designed many golf courses in my part of NJ and I believe several others in the surrounding NY tri-state area. I don't know of any courses he designed which are highly regarded architecturally, but I was surprised to learn how much design he actually did up here, and wondered what people in the business knew about him and thought of his work.


John -  I'm not in the business, but here are my two cents.


I think Hal Purdy designed at least 50 courses in NY/NJ/CT from the 1960's through the 1980's. Like Mike Cirba, my previous location and similar obsession have led me to play more than a handful of what I believe to  be are his designs (based on scorecard, website and member info). I don't know how much "Purdy" was in the courses at the time I played them. e.g. the courses at Flanders Valley were designed by HP in the 1960's but apparently re-designed by Rees Jones in the 1980's.  I haven't played  the two courses that Mike C mentioned as being a DS 0 and 1. The ones I've played would be 2's through 4's. Much of the quality of the end product was dependent on the  site he was given and how much room, movement and elevation /variety the site has. The commonalities/generalities that I can recall from the ones I've played are: (i) they are mostly well routed and  walkable, (ii) They don't look like he moved much dirt and seems to have laid out the holes as he "found" them on the property, (iii) the greens and bunkers on some of his courses are pretty basic and flat (e.g. Whitney Farms) while in other cases are more complex and interesting (e.g. the very good value Sunset Valley and the NLE Lazy Swan where there were some pretty fun holes, including a par 3 with a Biarritz-like green), and (iv) the publics are typically quite inexpensive to play. It's interesting to note that the Arnold Palmer course at Forsgate was named after Mr Palmer, but designed by Mr Purdy. I can't think of any "destination courses" of his. He designed many publics and muni's that have tee sheets full of locals that are very happy playing them. I think there is something good to be said for that.  He also designed a number of privates (Canoe Brook, Columbia, Tioga and the aforementioned Forsgate Palmer) which I'd guess form the more detailed green complexes and bunkering either had bigger budgets than his public courses or had subsequent work done.

Which HP courses have you played?

Here are links to photos of a sampling of his courses that few posters here will know of or play


https://www.flickr.com/photos/golfcoursepix/albums/72157710340019867   Lazy Swan (NLE)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/golfcoursepix/albums/72157631854859825   Philip Rotella Muni


https://www.flickr.com/photos/golfcoursepix/albums/72157719556910702 Sunset Valley Muni


https://www.flickr.com/photos/golfcoursepix/albums/72157713906217078 Whitney Farms


Off the top of my head, these are the ones I've played:


Apple Ridge (NLE)
Canoe Brook
Columbia Country Club
Fiddlers Green
Flanders Valley
Forsgate Palmer
H Richardson Smith
Lazy Swan (NLE)
New Paltz
Philip Rotella
Stony Ford
Sunset Valley
Tioga Country Club
Whitney Farms
Weequhaic (re-designed by HP)

Mike Worth

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Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2023, 11:28:06 AM »
What do the architects on this forum know about Hal Purdy? He designed many golf courses in my part of NJ and I believe several others in the surrounding NY tri-state area. I don't know of any courses he designed which are highly regarded architecturally, but I was surprised to learn how much design he actually did up here, and wondered what people in the business knew about him and thought of his work.


John -  I'm not in the business, but here are my two cents.


I think Hal Purdy designed at least 50 courses in NY/NJ/CT from the 1960's through the 1980's.


Off the top of my head, these are the ones I've played:


Apple Ridge (NLE)
Canoe Brook
Columbia Country Club
Fiddlers Green
Flanders Valley
Forsgate Palmer
H Richardson Smith
Lazy Swan (NLE)
New Paltz
Philip Rotella
Stony Ford
Sunset Valley
Tioga Country Club
Whitney Farms
Weequhaic (re-designed by HP)


I thought Lazy Swan in Saugerties reopened.  I grew up about 15 minutes away. I drove by it on a trip home last year and it had been recently mowed.


Maybe they attempted to reopen but didnt quite pull it off as a quick perusal of their website has no mention of golf


Contained within the attached article is a mention from last year about reopening


https://clubandresortbusiness.com/clubs-report-various-stages-of-renovations-2/






Stewart Abramson

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Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2023, 12:23:36 PM »

I thought Lazy Swan in Saugerties reopened.  I grew up about 15 minutes away. I drove by it on a trip home last year and it had been recently mowed.


Maybe they attempted to reopen but didnt quite pull it off as a quick perusal of their website has no mention of golf



For months the website has said "2023 rates coming soon" So perhaps there is a chance it may reopen

John Blain

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Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2023, 02:28:29 PM »

I thought Lazy Swan in Saugerties reopened.  I grew up about 15 minutes away. I drove by it on a trip home last year and it had been recently mowed.


Maybe they attempted to reopen but didnt quite pull it off as a quick perusal of their website has no mention of golf



For months the website has said "2023 rates coming soon" So perhaps there is a chance it may reopen
I thought the Lazy Swan was designed by Barry Jordan?

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