Good course, disastrous 18th

[Tim Martin]

I don’t know if disastrous is the proper adjective but the Reese Jones version of 18 at Bethpage Black is a swing and a miss.

[mike_malone]

Plainfield 18 kinda sucks. Is this a great enough course for this list?

[Tim Martin]

Plainfield 18 kinda sucks. Is this a great enough course for this list?

Yes!!

[Steve_Lovett]

I hope to someday play Cypress Point and to experience the disappointment of the 18th hole for myself! 


Meanwhile, I wouldn't call it "disastrous", but compared with the rest of the course I found the 18th at Royal County Down to be a long, straight, penal letdown.

[Sean_A]

18 at Baltray isn't a disaster, but it is a mess.

Ciao

[Niall C]

I probably ruffle a few feathers here - the 18th on the Old Course at St Andrews. Its becoming too easy for the best players in the world has seen in the Open last year.

Ben


Firstly, 99.999999% of those that play it don't come into the category of "best players in the world".


Secondly, for the best players in the world the hole has gone from an easy par 4, to a tricky par 3 in all but name and as such produced great drama. Witness the last two groups in the final round of the Open. A decent eagle chance, birdies and I think at least one of Hovland or McIlroy had a par. Different ways to play it, all without a bunker in sight. How can that not be a great hole. 


Niall

[Ben Stephens]

I probably ruffle a few feathers here - the 18th on the Old Course at St Andrews. Its becoming too easy for the best players in the world has seen in the Open last year.

Ben


Firstly, 99.999999% of those that play it don't come into the category of "best players in the world".


Secondly, for the best players in the world the hole has gone from an easy par 4, to a tricky par 3 in all but name and as such produced great drama. Witness the last two groups in the final round of the Open. A decent eagle chance, birdies and I think at least one of Hovland or McIlroy had a par. Different ways to play it, all without a bunker in sight. How can that not be a great hole. 


Niall

Maybe it should be 'easiest' rather than disastrous. The Old Course is the only course that has the easiest holes to finish each nine compared with any major championship course.

[Niall C]

Ben


Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Carnoustie for instance, and its fearsome finish and in that regard the finish is in keeping with the rest of the course. At TOC on the other hand, there are plenty of holes that are gettable as it were but equally they can bite you if you're not careful, so in that sense the 18th fits in perfectly as well as being a very good hole on its own merit.


Niall

[Ronald Montesano]

My first candidate was True Blue...glad that I am in good company with Wade. Strantz sometimes built those all-or-nothing closers (probably) at the behest of the owner. Caledonia has one as well, and I believe that Royal New Kent also has one. They are so out of character with his approach to gca.

I believe that the current 17th at Glens Falls was the original 18th. They had a wee par three, across the road, that is no longer there. I agree with John that the par three closer is very unlike a Donald Ross hole.

Pine Needles 18th is very odd to me.

Bethpage Black, for well-known reasons.

I'll leave you with Leatherstocking. It's an amazing golf hole, but it is out of character with the other 17 holes. Actually, 16-18 are out of character with the first 15 holes.

[Mike Wagner]

I would argue that not only isn't the 18th at Cypress "disastrous," it actually is a great 18th hole.  It is especially good when you think of the game most of us play--match play, usually with a partner.  MacKenzie thought of it as being a precision hole, concluding a round on a course offering many options on most holes.  It is like two very precise Par-3 hole shots following each other.  Maybe it takes some getting used to, but it is a perfect conclusion to a round.  The criticism of it has become almost an "in thing" to do without much thinking--just because it looks and plays somewhat differently than the other holes that give the player more options.  But I have heard compliments from some of the best golf minds, who have thought more about it, and praise it.

Agreed. Extremely satisfying 2nd shot shot to get right .. especially since you need to hit a well placed tee shot to have the opportunity. Plenty of recovery space if you don't. Look left as you're walking up the hill, and you're rewarded with seeing the best view in golf once again. The green is amazing - perfect challenge to get distance / spin correct.

[David Kelly]

Reddish Vale - relatively short tee shot, and then a very steep climb towards the green. You basically need a long iron to reach the green, but you can't really fly a long iron high enough to cover the incline.

It's a shame too because the green site is kind of cool with the sideboard on the left and the green being sunk in a little.  But you never see the ball react to it unless you're chipping up your third shot.

[Tim_Weiman]

Royal New Kent

WW

I played Royal New Kent shortly after it opened and hated the 18th, but time of day had a big impact as the sun could completely blind you on the approach shot.

[archie_struthers]

 


30+years from the day I played it can't forget the horrible 18th at Eagles Landing OC Maryland. Just an awful hole 


Believe the play that day was 7-iron lay up  ....six iron second shot

[Charlie Goerges]

30+years from the day I played it can't forget the horrible 18th at Eagles Landing OC Maryland. Just an awful hole 


Believe the play that day was 7-iron lay up  ....six iron second shot

How is the 18th at CPC or WBYC even in the conversation when a hole like this exists?

[Cliff Hamm]

30+years from the day I played it can't forget the horrible 18th at Eagles Landing OC Maryland. Just an awful hole 


Believe the play that day was 7-iron lay up  ....six iron second shot

Yes, that is the basic hole I encountered at Mt. Washington.  Thoroughly enjoyable Donald Ross and then 18.  Two shots of about 150.  Sounds very close to what you describe at Eagles Landing.  A hole that just doesn't fit in but also one that would be terrible on any course.

[MCirba]

Surprised no one has mentioned 18 at Yale yet.


Personally, I love the hole but I'm a self-professed Quirkaholic but I understand the average punter doing a "WTF" multiple times along the journey.

[Mike_Trenham]

Two Pete Dye Cape holes


Links at Perry Cabin
Heron Pointe


I found these both less than playable and terrible for match play.

[Ira Fishman]

Somerset Hills 18th, short par 4 straight uphill and blind tee shot. Green has some character, but the walk uphill takes the last bit of wind out of your sails as the back 9 is a tough walk. Not a big fan of blind tee shots, especially the 18th.  Wonderful course, especially the front 9.

I quite liked 18 at Somerset Hills. One more varied hole on a course replete with them. And another intriguing green complex.


Pretty much my same view of CPC 18.


Not so humble brags.


Ira

[John Emerson]

Royal New Kent

WW
[/quote[size=78%]][/size]

[size=78%]RNK gets my vote also..18 is downright offensive [/size]

[mike_malone]

30+years from the day I played it can't forget the horrible 18th at Eagles Landing OC Maryland. Just an awful hole 


Believe the play that day was 7-iron lay up  ....six iron second shot

Horrible hole

[jeffwarne]

Two Pete Dye Cape holes


Links at Perry Cabin
Heron Pointe


I found these both less than playable and terrible for match play.

Curious what a "terrible for match play" hole looks like.

[Mike_Trenham]

Two Pete Dye Cape holes


Links at Perry Cabin
Heron Pointe


I found these both less than playable and terrible for match play.

Curious what a "terrible for match play" hole looks like.

On these holes especially as the 18th the way the water hazards are shaped length becomes such a factor that for a longer hitter (275+) they can confidently make these long holes into a simple drive and a pitch and not take on the water while its a three shot hole for average length hitters.  Once the tee balls are hit there’s nearly no chance for the shorter player.

[Will Spivey]

I'd nominate two courses in this discussion:


-Manufacturers, when 18 is playing to the par 5 green
-Cape Fear Country Club. The story I was told is that the hole was redesigned by members following a club house expansion. It is bad enough to be true! It's the best course in Wilmington, NC, but that hole....ooof.

[D_Malley]

Glenmaura National comes to mind right away
Scranton,PA


here is a drone flyover
https://www.gngc.net/flyover

[Ben Hollerbach]

Royal New Kent

WW

I played Royal New Kent shortly after it opened and hated the 18th, but time of day had a big impact as the sun could completely blind you on the approach shot.

I don't recall the 18th being disastrous, but with the water it does feel very much out of character for the rest of the course. I would imagine if the pond was converted into a heather filled hollow, the hole would feel much more fitting for the course.