[david h. carroll]

It's been awhile since i posted anything, but i may have just encountered the worst routing i've ever experienced...possibly worse than a place in Ocean City, MD, which has a "renowned" mile plus cart ride that many here over the years have discussed, and also possibly a worse routing than old Pinehurst 8.  This one is west of Philly, and I was stunned by the disaster--unwalkable by any stretch--almost with a full disdain for walking, a lack of recognition of great terrain for design and contrived, contrived, contrived golf.


I'm sure this has been discussed before but I can't find the thread.....so, whats' the worst routing you've seen?

[Joe Bausch]

I bet I've played this course "west of Philly'! And I think the original name of the course started with a T.

[MCirba]

Taking Joe's cue...

Atter-boy, David.  Sall, good.

[Ian Andrew]

Canada: Fox Harbr'

The site was at least an 8 as raw land - full mile of ocean front - most of the property falls towards ocean
Golf course was at best a "3" featuring large containment mounding that blocked ocean views.

They are currently rebuilding ...

[John Kavanaugh]

A CBM course in a great baseball town has a par three routed so poorly that after hitting your approach to the par 3 you tee off on the next par 4. A reverse redan backtrack menagerie.

[david h. carroll]

Taking Joe's cue...

Atter-boy, David.  Sall, good.

nah, originally started with "Rox".....and now there are a ton of big ones there, apparently placed in 2003....

[Jeff Evagues]

Olde Stonewall north of Pittsburgh is a nice course with terrible routing.

[Mark Kiely]

Greg Nash-designed The Crossings at Carlsbad is a course with lots of interesting elevation changes and some really fun holes, but it's completely unwalkable and twice in the span of three holes (10-12), you have to drive the entire length of a hole backwards to get to the tee box.

[MCirba]

There is a course in the Poconos that is 12 miles from the 1st tee to the 18th green.


One could reasonably assume that the architect may have found at least one good golf hole along that woodland odyssey but that would be a mistaken notion.

[Charlie Goerges]

There is a course in the Poconos that is 12 miles from the 1st tee to the 18th green.


One could reasonably assume that the architect may have found at least one good golf hole along that woodland odyssey but that would be a mistaken notion.

What is this one? I want to go look at it on google maps.

[Kalen Braley]

There is a course in the Poconos that is 12 miles from the 1st tee to the 18th green.

One could reasonably assume that the architect may have found at least one good golf hole along that woodland odyssey but that would be a mistaken notion.

What is this one? I want to go look at it on google maps.

George,

I'd be interested too and will fire up Google Earth for a measurement.  I'd bet its no longer than 7...

[MCirba]

The course, formerly a private club, used to actually market themselves with the 12-mile estimate, as if it was some landmark feat of engineering.    It may only be 7 to Kalen's point, but the way I've been hitting the ball lately with a wildly wide dispersion pattern it would probably be 12 miles for me.   


Will reach out to you guys via IM.

[Tim Martin]

I would give a nod to a modern course located in the southern half of the Jersey Shore. I played as a single and was paired with a husband and wife who took a cart. It didn’t take three holes to realize that I erred as a walker and I’m sure they thought I just escaped from a facility for the criminally insane. The switchbacks and green to tee walks were astounding.

[MCirba]

I would give a nod to a modern course located in the southern half of the Jersey Shore. I played as a single and was paired with a husband and wife who took a cart. It didn’t take three holes to realize that I erred as a walker and I’m sure they thought I just escaped from a facility for the criminally insane. The switchbacks and green to tee walks were astounding.

Tim,


Is it akin in name to Watergate?

[MCirba]

nah, originally started with "Rox".....and now there are a ton of big ones there, apparently placed in 2003....

David,


Ahhh...the "west of Philly" threw me but looking at a map, it is indeed west of Philly. 


Apparently you were played by a Player!   


Word is that it may be revamped again at some point now that its owned by some very deep pockets.

[Tim Martin]

I would give a nod to a modern course located in the southern half of the Jersey Shore. I played as a single and was paired with a husband and wife who took a cart. It didn’t take three holes to realize that I erred as a walker and I’m sure they thought I just escaped from a facility for the criminally insane. The switchbacks and green to tee walks were astounding.

Tim,


Is it akin in name to Watergate?

Mike-No. If you come up with the initials I will confirm
or can send it offline. A hint is that you are close to running out of exits on the parkway.

[MCirba]

Tim,


That leaves me with either SH or CM.


I'll go with the latter.   

[Tim Martin]

Tim,


That leaves me with either SH or CM.


I'll go with the latter.   

Bingo

[Kalen Braley]

I think Mike C is the leader in the clubhouse so far.  I used Google Earth to map out the course he shared with me, ( i'll let him divulge if he wishes).

Its hands-down the most bonkers routing I've ever seen, and certainly the longest course I've ever mapped.  The routing was so convoluted it took me 1/2 hour just to figure it out before deciding to measure in stages to ensure some level of accuracy:
- Length of the actual golf hole
- Getting to the next tee, (which in some cases was just a best guess). 

Length of the actual golf holes: 3.41 miles
Distance in between tees: 4.26 miles (including one transition at nearly a mile ~.85)
Grand Total: 7.67 miles - which based on some of the guesses I had to make could easily be approaching 8 miles

Well done Mike, excellent suggestion.  This smashes the previous ones I've done in the just over 6 mile range.

[MCirba]

Kalen,


Ulysses would struggle with that routing.

[John Crowley]

Greg Nash-designed The Crossings at Carlsbad is a course with lots of interesting elevation changes and some really fun holes, but it's completely unwalkable and twice in the span of three holes (10-12), you have to drive the entire length of a hole backwards to get to the tee box.

Yes, The Crossings is un-walkable. It also has the interesting feature of at least one hole being in the glide/takeoff path of the adjacent airfield. I believe there have been a couple forced landings on the course and perhaps a crash landing.


There are a couple more SoCal courses with bad routings, Desert Willow - Mountain View and The Journey at Pechanga. The latter and The Crossings are on topography unsuited for golf.

[Mike_Trenham]

Loews Ventana Canyon - I can’t recall much, it was a business round so I tried not to notice how god awful it felt as my client loved the place and felt the need to show me one of his favorite courses.

[Ally Mcintosh]

We know it’s hard to evaluate routings without fully understanding the constraints of the site and the brief of the project


Think it might be worth people identifying specific glaring errors and evaluating why you think they are there.


Most architects don’t make glaring errors in routing without understanding what they are doing.

[Charlie Goerges]

I think Mike C is the leader in the clubhouse so far.  I used Google Earth to map out the course he shared with me, ( i'll let him divulge if he wishes).

Its hands-down the most bonkers routing I've ever seen, and certainly the longest course I've ever mapped.  The routing was so convoluted it took me 1/2 hour just to figure it out before deciding to measure in stages to ensure some level of accuracy:
- Length of the actual golf hole
- Getting to the next tee, (which in some cases was just a best guess). 

Length of the actual golf holes: 3.41 miles
Distance in between tees: 4.26 miles (including one transition at nearly a mile ~.85)
Grand Total: 7.67 miles - which based on some of the guesses I had to make could easily be approaching 8 miles

Well done Mike, excellent suggestion.  This smashes the previous ones I've done in the just over 6 mile range.

First, I was more confused than you were when looking at it. If I had to guess, a lot of the distances between holes was probably meant to contain housing that it appears wasn't built. But if that's not what happened, I have no idea why it would have been done that way.

[Kalen Braley]

We know it’s hard to evaluate routings without fully understanding the constraints of the site and the brief of the project

Think it might be worth people identifying specific glaring errors and evaluating why you think they are there.

Most architects don’t make glaring errors in routing without understanding what they are doing.

Ally,

You make some good points here.

With the course Mike shared if a course is intended to be cart-ball from the get go, and you could pick all the best places to put holes, regardless of the distance from the previous one (or next) would that preclude it from having routing errors?

In this example there were 6 holes where the next tee was over 1/4 mile away, and as mentioned one was just short of a mile.

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