Geek Culture and Golf Course Architecture

[Charlie Goerges]

I often say that everyone's a geek about something. The thought of how much of a geek are you about GCA came into my head. So I figured I'd ask the members of this august body how they would rate themselves in this area.


So on a scale of 1-10 with 1 being "courses are cool I guess" and 10 being "I would murder every single one of you people for Seth Raynor's original plan of Cypress Point" how much of a geek are you about GCA?




And feel free to expound on the topic in any way you wish.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I would murder maim every single one of you people for Seth Raynor's original plan of Cypress Point.

[Charlie Goerges]

I would murder maim every single one of you people for Seth Raynor's original plan of Cypress Point.

So you're more of a 9 like myself!

[Tim Fitz]

This is more of a bank shot answer (and does not involve putting myself on the scale).  My wife knows I have geeky tendencies about things she could not care less about.  But when we having dinner one night and ran into a friend from these message boards, it gave her pause.  I guess no wife likes her husband to introduce “a friend that I met on the internet”.  Fortunately, a geeky discussion board about GCA elicited more of an eye roll than a call to a divorce lawyer!


Jack, I still still get grief from my wife about this!

[John Kirk]

There has to be to better definition for a 10.  Geeks do not kill.

I'm pretty dorky, more for numbers and facts than golf courses.  I used to be a GCA Geek 9, but after 19 years of GCA, I'm a veteran 7.  Maybe if I become more comfortable about traveling again, my ongoing interest in new designs will re-emerge.

[Charlie Goerges]

There has to be to better definition for a 10.  Geeks do not kill.

You are right, it is of course figurative, but I’m happy for someone to come up with better descriptions. I like the veteran 7 for you.


Tim, we need to assign a number for you, maybe 6 “goes on internet golf dates”?

[Thomas Dai]

atb

[Charlie Goerges]

atb

I was waiting for it, and you delivered!

[Marty Bonnar]

Big upvote from me. (Thanks for teaching me a new word, Charlie!)
F.

[Charlie Goerges]

Big upvote from me. (Thanks for teaching me a new word, Charlie!)
F.

You’re welcome, and since you’re a Scot, you’ve got to be a minimum of 8, right?

[mike_malone]

My friends think I’m a 10 but I know Bausch/Cirba and I’m a piker compared to them. So let’s say 7 just like my home course in The Confidential Guide.

[Charlie Goerges]

let’s say 7 just like my home course in The Confidential Guide.

7 might be low if this is your example!

[Charlie Goerges]

Judging from recent posts, a lot more people should be in here owning-up.

[Garland Bayley]

Since we are talking geek and need
https://youtu.be/tg7EZCM7IlY

[Brett Meyer]

There are at least two ways to be a geek about golf course architecture. (1) You can be a geek about every detail that you see on a golf course and why you find it good/not so good. (2) You can be a geek about the history of golf course architecture and things on courses that speak to history (like template holes).

A lot of people are both. I'm probably a 10 for (1) and about a 4 for (2). I've come to realize over time that I'm just not really interested in historical minutia about golf course architecture or architects' personal biographies. But I'd be happy to talk endlessly about what I think about green contours, bunker placement, other shaping, etc. on their own merits, without reference to their historical origins or evolution.

I guess you could also be (3) a geek about the construction process and engineering details. I'd be more into that than the historical stuff.

[Kalen Braley]

Brett,

Excellent last post, and I certainly align fairly similar in those first two categories.  I'll save all the history buffing stuff for nerds like Cirba. 

P.S.  It'd be interesting to come up with a short list of litmus test questions to determine your spot on the 1-10 scale.  Like for example, what do you think of the 18th at CPC and how would you change it if at all?  Or discuss the pros/cons of pushing the tee back 40 yards at ANGC 13, or perhaps who actually designed Merion?

[Garland Bayley]

The geek is going to be a 10 about country clubs like Cypress Point, Merion, Augusta, etc. Whereas, the nerd is going to be a 10 about public courses where being socially awkward doesn't matter like Bethpage, Bandon, Cog Hill, etc.
And, a really big nerd is going to be a 10 about anyplace he can be guaranteed to play as a single.

Put me down as a nerd.

[MCirba]

At the moment I'm just finishing researching the origins of a 3-hole, 720 yard free golf course with artificial grass greens on Harris Hill near Elmira, NY. 


It turns out in 1973 one J. Arthur Kieffer, Chemung County grounds official believed a nine hole public course was needed to compliment the nearby amusement park and Air Gliding facility and designed 3 holes that cost $1,200 (originally w grass greens) and built with local youth corps.   By 1977 Kieffer (without full authorized approval) had expanded the course to 5 holes, still without funding approval.


Over time, Kieffer's 9-hole dream was abandoned and the two added holes were as well but today people just go out and play the three remaining original holes for free fifty years later. 


I haven't played there....yet.


As to the original question, you tell me.   


In case there's any remaining doubt as to my geekdom, here's our hero below.

[Charlie Goerges]

At the moment I'm just finishing researching the origins of a 3-hole, 720 yard free golf course with artificial grass greens on Harris Hill near Elmira, NY. 


It turns out in 1973 one J. Arthur Kieffer, Chemung County grounds official believed a nine hole public course was needed to compliment the nearby amusement park and Air Gliding facility and designed 3 holes that cost $1,200 (originally w grass greens) and built with local youth corps.   By 1977 Kieffer (without full authorized approval) had expanded the course to 5 holes, still without funding approval.


Over time, Kieffer's 9-hole dream was abandoned and the two added holes were as well but today people just go out and play the three remaining original holes for free fifty years later. 


I haven't played there....yet.


As to the original question, you tell me.   


In case there's any remaining doubt as to my geekdom, here's our hero below.

10

[Charlie Goerges]

Brett,

Excellent last post, and I certainly align fairly similar in those first two categories.  I'll save all the history buffing stuff for nerds like Cirba. 

P.S.  It'd be interesting to come up with a short list of litmus test questions to determine your spot on the 1-10 scale.  Like for example, what do you think of the 18th at CPC and how would you change it if at all?  Or discuss the pros/cons of pushing the tee back 40 yards at ANGC 13, or perhaps who actually designed Merion?

You're going to say all that an not give us a number? And yes, go ahead and come up with the list!

[Charlie Goerges]

The geek is going to be a 10 about country clubs like Cypress Point, Merion, Augusta, etc. Whereas, the nerd is going to be a 10 about public courses where being socially awkward doesn't matter like Bethpage, Bandon, Cog Hill, etc.
And, a really big nerd is going to be a 10 about anyplace he can be guaranteed to play as a single.

Put me down as a nerd.

I'll make a note of it. That said, I know people who are firmly in both camps, myself included. I'm going to assume you're a 10 in any event.

[Charlie Goerges]

There are at least two ways to be a geek about golf course architecture. (1) You can be a geek about every detail that you see on a golf course and why you find it good/not so good. (2) You can be a geek about the history of golf course architecture and things on courses that speak to history (like template holes).

A lot of people are both. I'm probably a 10 for (1) and about a 4 for (2). I've come to realize over time that I'm just not really interested in historical minutia about golf course architecture or architects' personal biographies. But I'd be happy to talk endlessly about what I think about green contours, bunker placement, other shaping, etc. on their own merits, without reference to their historical origins or evolution.

I guess you could also be (3) a geek about the construction process and engineering details. I'd be more into that than the historical stuff.

I probably started out similar to you and the two numbers have gradually partially reversed. Often because it's easier to be interested in the history remotely.

[Kalen Braley]

Brett,

Excellent last post, and I certainly align fairly similar in those first two categories.  I'll save all the history buffing stuff for nerds like Cirba. 

P.S.  It'd be interesting to come up with a short list of litmus test questions to determine your spot on the 1-10 scale.  Like for example, what do you think of the 18th at CPC and how would you change it if at all?  Or discuss the pros/cons of pushing the tee back 40 yards at ANGC 13, or perhaps who actually designed Merion?

You're going to say all that an not give us a number? And yes, go ahead and come up with the list!

Put me down as an 9 for this exercise, at least as it concerns Category 1 that Brett identified a few posts above.  These days, I often enjoy evaluating/analyzing features on the course more than playing.

As for the litmus test, that was a bit tongue in cheek, but I suspect a list of questions could be made. And perhaps Ran could use it when he's screening new members for the tree house?  But that would be best for  a different thread to compile that list, so this one doesn't go to far off the mark.

[Ira Fishman]

At the moment I'm just finishing researching the origins of a 3-hole, 720 yard free golf course with artificial grass greens on Harris Hill near Elmira, NY. 


It turns out in 1973 one J. Arthur Kieffer, Chemung County grounds official believed a nine hole public course was needed to compliment the nearby amusement park and Air Gliding facility and designed 3 holes that cost $1,200 (originally w grass greens) and built with local youth corps.   By 1977 Kieffer (without full authorized approval) had expanded the course to 5 holes, still without funding approval.


Over time, Kieffer's 9-hole dream was abandoned and the two added holes were as well but today people just go out and play the three remaining original holes for free fifty years later. 


I haven't played there....yet.


As to the original question, you tell me.   


In case there's any remaining doubt as to my geekdom, here's our hero below.

Tell me that he doesn’t remind you of Ran.

[Mike_Trenham]

Cirba, that whole story you just created is about as believable as the McKenzie drawings that emerged a few years back.  This feels like a deep fake created by a tech consultant, who will soon claim this is the origins of Top Golf.