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Rick Sides

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Aeration Question
« on: May 27, 2023, 04:25:22 PM »
A course I play a lot in south Jersey is closing this week for aeration . It has bent grass/poa mix greens . Does this seem early in season to aerate ?

Rob Marshall

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Re: Aeration Question
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2023, 04:38:22 PM »
A course I play a lot in south Jersey is closing this week for aeration . It has bent grass/poa mix greens . Does this seem early in season to aerate ?


In Rochester NY we did it mid April.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Jim_Coleman

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Re: Aeration Question
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2023, 04:48:41 PM »
   I think I remember Cricket doing it around now too.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2023, 07:20:11 PM by Jim_Coleman »

Kalen Braley

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Re: Aeration Question
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2023, 05:51:36 PM »
I'm due to play Rustic Canyon 9 days after aerification.  Wondering if that's enough time to be at least mostly healed for consistent putting

Mike Worth

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Re: Aeration Question
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2023, 05:53:44 PM »
As a longtime member at Hidden Creek, the topic of spring aeration is one I would surface every year.


Hidden Creek typically did it in mid-May. Spring growing always seems to come late to that part of NJ.  The result was often aeration holes being noticeable on Memorial Day weekend.  Sometimes it impacted play.


I advocated for doing it in early April on the chance that you might get an early and warm spring which would minimize the effects in May when most golfers started showing up. 


I’ve never heard of a course at the NJ shore doing it as late as June.


Which course in NJ?  I’ve played Linwood a couple of times and noticed they haven’t done it yet.

Cal Carlisle

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Re: Aeration Question
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2023, 06:25:06 PM »
A course I play a lot in south Jersey is closing this week for aeration . It has bent grass/poa mix greens . Does this seem early in season to aerate ?


Seems pretty late, especially in South Jersey.i would have thought that would have been done months ago.

Brent Carlson

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Re: Aeration Question
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2023, 06:59:06 PM »
I'm due to play Rustic Canyon 9 days after aerification.  Wondering if that's enough time to be at least mostly healed for consistent putting


Kalen,


Rustic will be better than most after aerification.  I think they will be fine.

Kalen Braley

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Re: Aeration Question
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2023, 07:03:51 PM »
I'm due to play Rustic Canyon 9 days after aerification.  Wondering if that's enough time to be at least mostly healed for consistent putting

Kalen,

Rustic will be better than most after aerification.  I think they will be fine.


Thanks Brent, I was hoping that would be the case given its fast & firm setup.  I figure i'm overdue to play it either way.  ;)

Kyle Harris

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Re: Aeration Question
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2023, 07:17:22 PM »
No.
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

Thank you for changing the font of your posts. It makes them easier to scroll past.

Robert Mercer Deruntz

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Re: Aeration Question
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2023, 07:54:24 PM »
Rustic Canyon, consistent with past years, is using the really small holes and wall to wall sanding.  Supposedly, it is playing really firm and fast this spring. I spoke to the golf shop a couple days ago, in an attempt to play this weekend, but there were no cancellations and times were booked until 4pm.  Couldn't make it up there the past few weeks, but am playing on Monday June 12th.  They said it should be firm and fast by next weekend.

Tim Martin

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Re: Aeration Question
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2023, 08:15:20 PM »
Rustic Canyon, consistent with past years, is using the really small holes and wall to wall sanding.


That’s the key to have a quick healing process. I played a course in Connecticut this Spring that punched and sanded on Monday and was able to hold a tournament the ensuing weekend with good conditions and plenty of runout.

John Blain

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Re: Aeration Question
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2023, 11:44:55 AM »
A course I play a lot in south Jersey is closing this week for aeration . It has bent grass/poa mix greens . Does this seem early in season to aerate ?
The course I play out of in Central New York never aerates in the spring, just once a year in the early fall and our greens are pure all year every year.

Tal Oz

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Re: Aeration Question
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2023, 02:08:09 PM »
Rustic Canyon, consistent with past years, is using the really small holes and wall to wall sanding.  Supposedly, it is playing really firm and fast this spring. I spoke to the golf shop a couple days ago, in an attempt to play this weekend, but there were no cancellations and times were booked until 4pm.  Couldn't make it up there the past few weeks, but am playing on Monday June 12th.  They said it should be firm and fast by next weekend.
Robert (and Kalen and Brent) do you want to play Sunday June 11th in the morning?

For the most part Rustic heals quickly from aerification, though the greens may be a tad slower than typical this time of year.

Kalen Braley

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Re: Aeration Question
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2023, 04:27:35 PM »
Rustic Canyon, consistent with past years, is using the really small holes and wall to wall sanding.  Supposedly, it is playing really firm and fast this spring. I spoke to the golf shop a couple days ago, in an attempt to play this weekend, but there were no cancellations and times were booked until 4pm.  Couldn't make it up there the past few weeks, but am playing on Monday June 12th.  They said it should be firm and fast by next weekend.
Robert (and Kalen and Brent) do you want to play Sunday June 11th in the morning?

For the most part Rustic heals quickly from aerification, though the greens may be a tad slower than typical this time of year.


Thanks for the offer Taz, I won't be able to make it then, but should be available Sunday early evening for a meetup otherwise.

P.S.  I'll also be at LACC Monday morning until noon to walk around the course and have a look. Would be great to meet up with a few other GCA'ers if they'll be out there then...
« Last Edit: May 28, 2023, 04:32:50 PM by Kalen Braley »

A.G._Crockett

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Re: Aeration Question
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2023, 06:40:28 PM »
Late, for sure. 


As to Rustic Canyon, if the greens were heavily sanded and the weather cooperates, they’ll be fine 9 days later.  Not perfect, but fine.  Perfect comes along after about 3+ weeks.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Robert Mercer Deruntz

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Re: Aeration Question
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2023, 11:51:32 PM »
Thank you for the offer Taz. I am driving up early Monday and staying over for LACC on Tuesday.  Have to be on a plane to Pittsburgh on Wednesday, so an extra day away from home would be really difficult. 


Unlike other courses, I have played Rustic a week after their aerification in the old big money skins games.  The greens firmed up fast, and were putting a little slower, but they made up for that by having really interesting pin locations.  I would be surprised if that is not the case next week

Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG

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Re: Aeration Question
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2023, 08:00:48 AM »

To answer the OPs question directly - no....

But for those interested, lets throw some science into this.


As we know there are many ways and reasons to aerate. The timing of it can vary wildly too based on a clubs golf schedule, the amount of aeration needed, the need for revenue, etc. the list goes on.


I just aerated last week in east central PA. It has taken me a number of years to switch to this date but it is making a huge difference. Aeration is a nuisance for everyone - not just the golfer but it is a PITA for superintendents to rip up the course and then heal it back up. I often find the idea of it funny, in that, we aerate to remove organic material (as well as for the benefits of aeration), only to fertilize the hell out of it to recover quickly and therefore start the cycle again - but that's for another day.


The issue is soil temperatures. Most cool season turfgrass starts to actively grow when the average soil temperatures are consistently above 55F and ideally above 60F. Poa annua is a winter annual so it will start to grow earlier than bentgrass, which likes the warmer soil temperatures. Soil based greens are generally slower to heat up but will retain heat better than a sand based green - in which the soil temperature can vary a lot over the day. This is why you might see fairways heal quicker than greens (although the longer height of the grass helps too).


I used to aerate mid April as it was "the time" where the weather was usually ok and the season hadn't really started yet, but over the last number of years that got pushed earlier and earlier - which I liked as it was out of the way, but then we would run into recovery issues. Over (at least) the last 5 years, we have had a warm spell in early spring which would get them to recover to about 70% and then the cold would hit again, drop soil temps (not being helped by now having holes to transfer the cold into the soil quicker) and the bentgrass would shutdown or at least growth would really slow up. When this happened, the greens would just sit there until the soil temperatures got to a point where the bentgrass was happily growing - which was generally mid may. I had a climatologist friend provide the soil temp records for the last 1,5,10,30 & 50 years and all of them showed that there were consistent soil temperatures above 60F by May 15th.


Due to those weather patterns of warmish for a spell in spring and then a cool down, we had far from perfect greens for at least 6-10 weeks each spring as they slowly healed and then another 2 in August (which incidentally was moved back from after Labor day years ago for the same reason). So over the course of a year, the greens were "not good" from anywhere from 6-12 weeks in season. Moving the aeration dates to when the plants are actively growing, greatly reduces the healing time, so the result being that the total downtime is reduced to ~4 weeks a year.


The biggest complaint was that the spring and fall aeration dates are now too close together but it is a win/win when the down time is minimized. We had frost two days last week, the night time temperatures have been lower than normal (which I'm ok with), and combined with the fact we haven't had rain in over 4 weeks, means that conditions haven't been completely ideal for recovery, but 10 days out and the greens are 85% healed and now rolling smooth and fast, and they should be back to normal by day 14/15. We had to adjust the golf schedule a little to accommodate it but it was fine due to having perfect greens for the last 8 weeks. I heard so many comments about how good they were and "I don't ever remember them being this good in the spring before" - well that was because they were always torn up or recovering in spring...


Doing it with the warmer soil temps helps favor bentgrass over poa as the bentgrass is more competitive when it is actively growing. This means it can heal in quicker before a poa plant can sneak in. I know there are a lot of courses aerating in the off season, but again, personally I do not like this as once the soil temperature drops in the fall/winter, the recovery slows, eventually stopping and will not actively start again until - well - May 15th.... Ok thats a bit of a stretch but you get the idea. I have been told I'm wrong in that the timing does not affect poa encroachment, but from experience I still beg to differ.


Like everything in turf, this is not a one size fits all due to soils, turf type, golf schedules, aggressiveness of the aeration etc etc but doing a spring aeration in mid may in the mid Atlantic makes sense as it minimizes the recovery period and therefore the inconvenience to play.
Golf construction & maintenance are like creating a masterpiece; Da Vinci didn't paint the Mona Lisa's eyes first..... You start with the backdrop, layer on the detail and fine tune the finished product into a masterpiece

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aeration Question
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2023, 08:01:56 AM »
 8)


I've always been a proponent of doing the aeration in cooperation with the soil temperature , which typically isn't a member or management supported decision. Would hope those more educated in the science like Alan and Kyle chime in with an opinion.


At a private club , you should be able to do it this way. In my opinion the shorter healing time makes sense and you can give more excellent conditions for the year on a week by week basis. Here at the Jersey Shore most clubs are less concerned about winter and shoulder season play , but I don't like that.  Would like to see it based on temps!


As to Mike's question specifically to the Jersey Shore our growing season is at least two or three weeks later than Pine Valley which is 54 miles due west of my house in Ocean City. This is due to our proximity to the ocean and it's cooling and warming effects on the temperatures. The closer to the water the cooler in the spring and the warmer in the late fall. So our perfect time might be close to June 1 and September 30 to maximize efficiency and your business model. Most don't do it this way and we often have a long period in the spring that's pretty rough. Our poa bent mix also is impacted by the way you aerate in my opinion. The bent doesn't thrive until the soil temperatures rise , so it is a factor to me in the timing.


From a business standpoint it's understandable why no one wants to aerate "in season" but it's a decision. As a year round player there is nothing worse than a late aeration for me personally. Some drill and fills late in the season to maximize revenue make for a tough winter down here.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2023, 06:29:08 AM by archie_struthers »

A.G._Crockett

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Re: Aeration Question
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2023, 07:54:46 AM »
8)


I've always been a proponent of doing the aeration in cooperation with the soil temperature , which typically isn't a member or management supported decision. Would hope those more educated in the science like Alan and Kyle chime in with an opinion.


At a private club , you should be able to do it this way. In my opinion the shorter healing time makes sense and you can give more excellent conditions for the year on a week by week basis. Here at the Jersey Shore most clubs are less concerned about winter and shoulder season play , but I don't like that.  Would like to see it based on temps!


As to Mike's question specifically to the Jersey Shore our growing season is at least two or three weeks later than Pine Valley which is 54 miles due west of my house in Ocean City. This is due to our proximity to the ocean and it's cooling and warming effects on the temperatures. The closer to the water the cooler in the spring and the warmer in the late fall. So our perfect time might be close to June 1 and September 30 to maximize efficiency and your business model. Most don't do it this way and we often have a long period in the spring that's pretty rough. Our poa bent mix also is impacted by the way you aerate in my opinion. The bent doesn't thrive until the soil temperatures rise , so it is a factor to me in the timing.


From a business standpoint it's understandable why no one wants to aerate "in season" but it's a decision. As a year round player there is nothing worse than a late aeration for me personally. Some drill and fills late in the season to maximize revenue make for a tough winter down here.


Archie,
I understand what you are saying, but I don’t think it works with the calendar commitments clubs/courses have.  My club shuts down the course for three days when the crew does the big aeration in the spring, not including the Monday that they start and we’re closed anyway. 


I doubt many courses could aerate on a “floating” basis because of tournaments, outings, Interclub matches, league play, and on and on.  Knowing the dates that the course will be either unavailable or recovering is pretty critical to the overall schedule.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Anthony_Nysse

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Re: Aeration Question
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2023, 12:53:27 PM »
8)


I've always been a proponent of doing the aeration in cooperation with the soil temperature , which typically isn't a member or management supported decision. Would hope those more educated in the science like Alan and Kyle chime in with an opinion.


At a private club , you should be able to do it this way. In my opinion the shorter healing time makes sense and you can give more excellent conditions for the year on a week by week basis. Here at the Jersey Shore most clubs are less concerned about winter and shoulder season play , but I don't like that.  Would like to see it based on temps!


As to Mike's question specifically to the Jersey Shore our growing season is at least two or three weeks later than Pine Valley which is 54 miles due west of my house in Ocean City. This is due to our proximity to the ocean and it's cooling and warming effects on the temperatures. The closer to the water the cooler in the spring and the warmer in the late fall. So our perfect time might be close to June 1 and September 30 to maximize efficiency and your business model. Most don't do it this way and we often have a long period in the spring that's pretty rough. Our poa bent mix also is impacted by the way you aerate in my opinion. The bent doesn't thrive until the soil temperatures rise , so it is a factor to me in the timing.


From a business standpoint it's understandable why no one wants to aerate "in season" but it's a decision. As a year round player there is nothing worse than a late aeration for me personally. Some drill and fills late in the season to maximize revenue make for a tough winter down here.


Archie,
I understand what you are saying, but I don’t think it works with the calendar commitments clubs/courses have.  My club shuts down the course for three days when the crew does the big aeration in the spring, not including the Monday that they start and we’re closed anyway. 


I doubt many courses could aerate on a “floating” basis because of tournaments, outings, Interclub matches, league play, and on and on.  Knowing the dates that the course will be either unavailable or recovering is pretty critical to the overall schedule.


I would agree with AG. Most club have calendar events marked 12-18 months in advance that may even be timed around another clubs events so that both clubs can be well attended.


Aerification schedules can fluctuates depending on grasses & location, of course. In Florida, we are just getting into the 120 day window of multiple aerifications, continual topdressing & aerification. Up north, its common to aerify in the spring & fall. I know some courses in the northeast aerify when families are transitioning from summer to beginning of school & as football season is introduced. I also know a few places that aerify during the warmest time of the year to minimize poa from coming into their pure bentgrass greens.
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

archie_struthers

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Re: Aeration Question
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2023, 03:29:23 PM »
 8)


I'm with you guys as to scheduling. Just think that in our area we should do it late May and probably mid-September. Most of our superintendents farm it out these days and manage the crews doing it and of course sand and clean up.  We could build a playing schedule around it at a private. Publics do need to worry more about word of mouth as to conditions, as often the public doesn't see the need for the practice at all. So it's not easy for you guys in the trenches. Green committees  AI YI YI  :P


Would think the rapid heal would be preferable than three weeks or more of bad putting if you do it too early Of course if it's too late around here they never heal for the winter players.  that's it   Thanks all