"A Links Once More"

[blasbe1]

Is the title of an article by Dr. William Quirin in this month's Met Golfer about The Seawane Club in Hewlett Harbor, NY (south shore of Nassau County on Long Island) that accents the recent thread on Devereux Emmet.  I am a member there and have been active in the renovation project (although my suggestions have not always been followed my voice has at least been heard).

Seawane is an Emmet design that opened in 1927 and was a gem of its day.  The club fell on hard times and was purchased by village residents in 1960 when Robert Trent Jones Sr. was commissioned to work on the course.  Much as I had suspected when I first played the course 4 years ago, most bunkers were classic Jones flashed faced but seemed out of place because of the flatness of the land (compared to impressive flashed bunkering on more undulating terrain).  There were still vistages of Emmet, mostly in cross bunkering on #15 and 17 and bunkering down the left of #6.  Jones et al., also planted thousands of sycamores that never grew more than 15 feet or so.  

There has been some talk and criticism of both the project and the course on other threads so I wanted to start this thread for a more targeted discussion.  If anyone has access to this month's Met Golfer please take a few minutes and read the article.  Chris Blakely had commented rather astutely on holes 10-14 that I will respond to in detail later as to why I believe the holes play much better now.

We have taken some heat for changing bunker shapes, but 90% of those were RTJ bunkers anyhow.  We have lost one key cross bunker (#17) that I will fight to restore in the future.  We have "restored" some forced carries too, most of which were eliminated over the years.  I invite comment and criticism on the project, the course, the Emmet characteristics left or expunged and lastly and most importantly:

I invite those on this board that share the passion for GCA with those of us at Seawane to come out and see what we've done there.  Spring is not long off and I love to play so please IM me if you are truly interested in the course and the project and I'd be more than happy to arrange a round . . . only kicker is you must share a couple of beers afterwards.

  (Now to convince the membership that hard and fast is good for the course and the game and fairways don't always have to be emerald green . . . )

[Craig Disher]

blasbe1,
How much of the current mapquest view is RTJ and how much is your restoration?

[Chris_Blakely]

Blasbe1,

Is that large sand waste/cross-bunker completly cutting off the 17th fairwya in the mapquest aerial the bunker you are trying to get restored?

What is going on with the 18th green?  Those bunkers look nothing like what is their now, the present 18th green has deep bunkers running along both sides of the green and extenging slightly into the front of the green on the left side.  Your head GP said these bunkers were done by the club years ago?  The present bunkers look nothing like the other bunkers Kay did.

Additionally, the bunkers on 6, 7, 8, 9 and 15 appear to be more round then I remember them, especially, the cross bunkers on 6, 7 and 9?

What about the three elongated pot bunkers in the left fairway(as you play the hole)?  They looked to be older bunkers and on the aerial, they are not there?

Craig,

Most of the bunkering below the road (from the clubhouse to the road with the exception of the cross-bunker on 17 and possibly the 4th hole (second hole that plays along the channel) as the bunkering there resembles simililar styles he did on other courses.

[blasbe1]

I'm going to ask the stupid question of the day:  where is this mapquest aerial?  (It's not www.mapquest.com right?)  

[Chris_Blakely]

Blasbe1,

Go to

www.golfcourse.com

type in Seawane,

Then go to get directions/map (top third of page)

There is an option on the mapquest map for an aerial picture.

[blasbe1]

Chris:

Ahh . . . technology good.  

The mapquest aerial is before any of the current renovation started.
 
Yes the cross bunker on 17 is gone and I'd like to see it brought back some day.  

18 green has deep bunkers that give the green an island feel.  Chris your info. re:  what our head GP said about 18 green is bad, those bunkers were done 2 years ago, you and must have had a misunderstanding.  Same goes for 10 green, the shape was not changed at all as the Mapquest aerial shows . . . it's still an oval.

What you have to remember about this project is that Kay consults, draws plans and then the shaper, our superintendent and our greens chairman create as they go.  That's what happend with 18 green . . . we said let's see how far we can go down b/c we always have water table issues . . . we dug and dug and created some nasty sod walled bunkers that leave you with little more than the top of the flagstick to see (if that!).  BTW, the bunkers that were there as shown in the aerial were totally flashed (RTJ) and unlike the original bunkers that I've seen some old photos that were not so round and had crumpled sod walls.

The bunkering on 6-9 and 15 that you see is as it was before the end of this year when we shut down 6 and 15 (7-9 will be done next year) they look more oval when you play them b/c of the flatness of the land (again almost all flashed with the exception of the left side of 6 and left and short of the green on 9).

The three elongated pots on #1 had been grassed over at some pt. (hence not visable in the aerial) and we restored them, I do wish we did some more that.

Craig:

I believe most of the bunkering with the exception of the crosses on 17 and 15, left of 6, and left of 9 closer to the green, were likely redone by RTJ.  I'll see if we've got before and after photos from the 60s.

       

   

[Thomas_Brown]

blasbe1 - What potential could this course have?
I've played several Long Island courses, but missed this one.
I'm curious how hard the fairways and greens currently play.
Is it links-like now?

From the aerial, it does look like the bunkers are nothing like links course bunkers.  Am I wrong?  How flat is the course?
IMHO- To be truly links-like, the land needs some roll or mounding.

Also, besides the water, there seems to be very few fairway bunkers/hazards off of the tee.   The water and the wind are probably enough to make the tee shots interesting.

Tom

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

I have a great fondness for Seawane and believe that there are some great holes.  4 has to be the premier risk/reward drivable par 4 in Metropolitan NY!  The par 3's are diverse with really interesting green complexes.  In fact, there is not one boring green complex.  All of the greens have subtle humps and bumps and several have gullies  and there are a few false fronts.  I think that Seawane is doing well in its restoration.  I don't like Kay's previous work, but other than eliminating the 17th crossbunker it is very good--it surprised me to hear that he was involved--it reminded me of what Forse had done at Nassau before that club decided to ruin its bunkers with Cupp.   I am certain that if Kay did some of his earlier wierd changes, it would be over some peoples dead bodies.  I've played over the years with members who really appreciate great courses--and Bobby Longo the professional and Brian Benedict the superintendent are very knowlegable about great courses, and are a great asset to the restoration.  I think it is a great course and love playing it every year!

[Chris_Blakely]

Blasbe1,

I still got the feeling from the general shape of the bunkers(how they were built up behind that the cross bunkers on 6, 7 , 9 and some of the bunkers on 15 were Emmet originals.  This courld be wrong; however, I have viewed photos of a lot of his bunkering when it was originally built and then played those same courses and saw how it looked now and the holes I just listed had similar bunkering characteristics.

As for the information that I receved from Bob Longo your GP, I wrote down exactly what he told me.   He said that the original 10th green was circular with mounding around it and that years ago it was made into the present oval shape.  I would assume the mounding was eliminated on the back left to install the chipping areas that tey have done all over the course.  I also wrote down what I previously stated about the 18th.  As for the 18th, ot does not really matter becasue your present 18th is much improveed from the RTJ bunkering shown in the aerial.

I will say I like the 18th, parts of the 3rd, the 4th is very good and I am not sure if it is a restoration or not, and the 16th is good as welll.

[blasbe1]

T.Brown:

Potential is subjective . . . we've got the potential to be a great links style course again and, IMO, to once again become a top second tier tract in the Met Area (first tier being the well known members (or should be members) of the annual top-100 U.S. list that we're fortunate enough to have so many of).

Chris B.:

I just had an interesting conversation with a good friend and long time member of the club (it's only my fourth year there so I'm learning more history all the time) I'm now told that the cross bunker on 17 and the bunkering with grass islands left of 6 are not Emmet but were added significantly later, perhaps by Kay in '88.  I'm going to the club this afternoon in search of early aerials and will report back.  

I misunderstood your comment about 10 green b/c I thought you meant that we changed the green shape with this project . . . we have not but it certainly could have been done in '88 which is what Bob would certainly recall.  Bob has been a fantastic asset during the current project.

 

[blasbe1]

T. Brown:

The greens always play fast and the fairways run, last year everything was soft for a long time b.c of the rain.  I believe both could be firmer and I know that's something that our superintendent is focusing on (he's amazing, btw).

Your observations re:  the bunkering in the aerial are accurate (IMO) the bunkering was not particularly links-like (with certain notable exceptions).  Restoring a links look and playability is what we're doing (the aerial you see was taken before the current project began).  Counting in my head there are fairway bunkers in play off every 4 and 5 par tee, many of which now require lay ups and make you earn par.  Much of the older fairway bunkering was too shallow and going at the green was usually an option.  

We are on the south shore of Nassau which is generally flat, but we do have rolling undulations in the fairways.  They are not dramatic but subtle and we do have existing mounding and much that has been added this time around.  The greens are undulating and most have different sections created by  humps or swales and when they're rolling at 11 or so they are a blast to play.      

[Craig Disher]

I'm assuming this is the 17th....

The b/w aerial is from around 1940 and shows a pair of bunkers and a narrow fairway where the later cross bunker was placed. The rough ground on the outside of each bunker suggests that perhaps Emmet originally placed a hazard across the entire fairway at that point. The mapquest color aerial predates the restoration, correct?

It's interesting that the comb-shaped bunker of Emmet's next to the green was flipped over to the other side. It really changed Emmet's strategy for the hole.

[blasbe1]

FYI:

Because I've been told in the past that anonymity is the less desired option on GCA, my secret identity is revealed at www.longislandgolf.org, our team from Seawane is the first photo, I'm on the left and clearly the least talented player in the group.  EN has won club championships in at least 3 decades, BL is an accomplished pro in the Met Area and GS made it to match play at this year's Mid Am.  I did help on a couple of holes, however.

[blasbe1]

Craig:

The mapquest aerial is from '94 I believe.  Compare the left border of 17 and you see the natural grass dunes that we lost over time, mostly trees in the color aerial  .  Part of what we've done is reclaimed that land and cleared those trees, much of which is grass mounding and bunkering.

[Chris_Blakely]

The comb shaped bunkers and the amoeba-like bunkers are the result of Alfred Tull's influence creeping into Emmet's work.  The Seawane Harbor Club (original name) was opened in 1927 and Tull's different bunker style had already started to creep into their work.

[blasbe1]

Also, the long and deep sod faced bunker in the '40 aerial in play off the tee down the right side of the fairway has been totally restored.  As you can see in the color shot it's gone, the bunker there now looks very similar and if you are in the front of it you play a wedge out and suck it up.  In fact, today that bunker really pushes one's line off the tee to the left but when the wind blows its always in play.  Plus, a carry over the left edge of it cuts the hole down and gives the player a go at the green with a wood or long iron depending on the wind.  It's the only 5-par I've yet to eagle.

[Chris_Blakely]

Blasbe1,

Is the sodfaced bunker on #17 in the right fairway/rough in the exact location as the 1940 one?  Is it the same shape?  If I remember correctly, does it not have a more amoeba-lke shape?

[blasbe1]

Chris:

As far as marking the right edge of the fairway the bunker is in the same place, distance from the tee wise I'm sure the current bunker is further from the tee, otherwise the old bunker would never have been carried which is the fun part of the current bunker, a good heroic shot.

We got amoebas down the left side but the right side buker is very similar in shape.    
 

[blasbe1]

Our superintendent has the oldest aerial at home so I will see it in the near future, the one I did see at the club is basically the same as mapquest.  Craig's post confirmed that the cross bunker on 17 was not original and I confirmed that it and the bunkers down the left of 6 with grass islands were added in '88 so Kay did at least some nice touches then (IMO).  

I was also told by our super that the original #1 fairway was dotted with some dozen or so pot bunkers, similar to a mine field.  I imagine that theme was repeated throughout the layout.  Currently, we've added approximately 12-15 pot bunkers to 15 so we're getting there . . . unfortunately, only three cross the fairway where the old cross bunker was and the greenside bunker short right is deep and mean.  

I'm hoping we add a series of pots from 250-290 off #9 tee and again from 110-70 yds from the green.  It's a 500 yd 5 par that is often downwind, I've hit as little as 6 iron into it so some challenge off the tee and again in the layup area in needed.  There is also talk of digging out the 8th green so that it's a pearched island of green surrounded completely by bunkering.  The putting surface would not be touched but it will appear to have been elevated, the same effect we created on 18 green.  It should be a more visually intimidating short hole that every great course needs.    


     

[Mike_Sweeney]

Blasbe,

I just read the article in MetGolfer on the Sewane restoration. The pictures are wonderful, and if they are indicative of the work done, I would have to say that this has to be one of the best restorations that I have heard or seen. I know that Stephen Kay has been criticized here before, but it sounds like the team os super, architect and greens committee came together to really bring the course back to its links heritage.

Make sure you post the links to Metgolfer when it comes online, it a case study for this group.

[blasbe1]

Mike:

Thanks.  Do you know when the MetGolfer is going on line, last I checked it was under construction?  I think the main reason why the project is going well (IMO) is the teamwork and creativity involved.  We're also seeing continued improvement with the shaping over the years (now year 3 of 4) and the crew feels more and more comfortable with what they're doing.  This is probably when we need to be most careful.