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Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Second Trump Course at Balmedie
« on: May 01, 2023, 08:46:42 AM »
Please don't make this a political thread.


Trump is in the process of visiting his overseas golfing empire in Scotland and Ireland and has announced that he will be cutting the ribbon on the second course at Balmedie. Does anyone know whether Hawtree is still involved ?


Niall

Robin_Hiseman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Second Trump Course at Balmedie
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2023, 03:42:27 PM »
Press reports suggest Martin is the architect for the new MacLeod course.
2024: RSt.D; Mill Ride; Milford; Notts; JCB, Jameson Links, Druids Glen, Royal Dublin, Portmarnock, Old Head, Addington, Parkstone, Denham, Thurlestone, Dartmouth, Rustic Canyon, LACC (N), MPCC (Shore), Cal Club, San Fran, Epsom, Casa Serena, Hayling, Co. Sligo, Strandhill, Carne, Cleeve Hill

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Second Trump Course at Balmedie
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2023, 03:47:17 PM »
Press reports suggest Martin is the architect for the new MacLeod course.


There you have it.


Thread is now over.


 ;D ;D

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Second Trump Course at Balmedie
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2023, 05:10:37 PM »
Apparently they started on site a few months ago.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Second Trump Course at Balmedie
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2023, 05:33:48 PM »
Does anyone have a sense of how busy the first course is?


I never understood why they wanted two 18's, except as a bargaining chip for more housing or for getting the first one through.

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Second Trump Course at Balmedie
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2023, 05:56:32 PM »
Does the Trump organization provide the money for the resorts/courses in Scotland and Ireland or do they have a financial partner?  I know for Trump hotels it is often a licensing deal where the Trump organization has very little involvement in many instances, other than getting a fee for the name.

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Second Trump Course at Balmedie
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2023, 02:39:14 AM »
Has anyone wondered how much Turnberry has made per year on green fees alone - its astonishing how much and am really curious why its not shown as profit making business

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Second Trump Course at Balmedie
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2023, 02:44:59 AM »
Has anyone wondered how much Turnberry has made per year on green fees alone - its astonishing how much and am really curious why its not shown as profit making business

Has Turnberry turned a profit? Trump spent a bomb on the hotel and course. There was the small matter of Covid as well.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Second Trump Course at Balmedie
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2023, 03:29:44 AM »
Has anyone wondered how much Turnberry has made per year on green fees alone - its astonishing how much and am really curious why its not shown as profit making business

Has Turnberry turned a profit? Trump spent a bomb on the hotel and course. There was the small matter of Covid as well.

Ciao


Have PM you Sean :) they certainly made a lot of money on green fees alone. Don't think Covid was a huge factor in this regard for 2022.


Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Second Trump Course at Balmedie
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2023, 03:50:29 AM »
Apparently they started on site a few months ago.


I must have missed that, that and the press release. Did they get a separate planning consent for the second course or was it wrapped up in the consent for the first course ?


Niall

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Second Trump Course at Balmedie
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2023, 03:56:09 AM »
Does anyone have a sense of how busy the first course is?


I never understood why they wanted two 18's, except as a bargaining chip for more housing or for getting the first one through.


I imagine the second course would help with the lodging and accommodation and might even make the hotel idea viable although I suspect not to the scale as previously envisaged. The housing is really a separate entity and was an attempt at maximising what he could do with the land.


Niall

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Second Trump Course at Balmedie
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2023, 04:12:03 AM »
Apparently they started on site a few months ago.


I must have missed that, that and the press release. Did they get a separate planning consent for the second course or was it wrapped up in the consent for the first course ?


Niall


They had separate planning about 4 or 5 years ago. In fact, I suspect they are working on it now so the planning doesn’t lapse.


Only info I have that they are working on it is anecdotal from a member who sees it. I’m not sure they have even been informed. Very low key.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Second Trump Course at Balmedie
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2023, 04:15:17 AM »
Ally


So low key there is nothing on the web-site but I suspect there will be a big splash soon enough if Trump is doing a cutting of the ribbon.


Yes not letting the planning lapse might be a factor but I think I'm right in saying you now only have 3 years to start the project, but could be wrong.


Niall




Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Second Trump Course at Balmedie
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2023, 04:29:23 AM »
Has anyone wondered how much Turnberry has made per year on green fees alone - its astonishing how much and am really curious why its not shown as profit making business

Has Turnberry turned a profit? Trump spent a bomb on the hotel and course. There was the small matter of Covid as well.

Ciao


Have PM you Sean :) they certainly made a lot of money on green fees alone. Don't think Covid was a huge factor in this regard for 2022.
It is still a massive loss maker. Was privately offered up for sale last year, I can't remember the exacts but it was something like £100M less than Trump paid. Course itself is brilliant and very well thought of as is Trump Aberdeen, for the regular UK golfer Trump Aberdeen is an absolute must play unless you have political views. Comments back are ...its top 10.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Second Trump Course at Balmedie
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2023, 04:57:38 AM »
Apparently they started on site a few months ago.


I must have missed that, that and the press release. Did they get a separate planning consent for the second course or was it wrapped up in the consent for the first course ?


Niall


They had separate planning about 4 or 5 years ago. In fact, I suspect they are working on it now so the planning doesn’t lapse.


Only info I have that they are working on it is anecdotal from a member who sees it. I’m not sure they have even been informed. Very low key.


Planning got approved in 2020 (the application was submitted in 2015) - normally it is a three year period to commence construction to activate the planning permission - so they are just getting inside the three year period to avoid having to submit another planning application. The course construction can take however long they want it to be.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Second Trump Course at Balmedie
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2023, 07:01:15 AM »
Adrian


For some reason I think Trump "only" paid £35m for Turnberry. I seem to recall that number. He may have then spent quite a lot of money on the property after purchase but the numbers they quote are often nonsense. For instance, you often read of the £100m course at Balmedie when I believe the Irish construction company were paid c.£7m.


Anyway, I note he was in todays paper shown cutting a ribbon. Hard to believe he'd being doing that unless he wasn't now going to go ahead and complete the course. He'd look rather foolish otherwise.


Niall

Robin_Hiseman

  • Karma: +0/-0
2024: RSt.D; Mill Ride; Milford; Notts; JCB, Jameson Links, Druids Glen, Royal Dublin, Portmarnock, Old Head, Addington, Parkstone, Denham, Thurlestone, Dartmouth, Rustic Canyon, LACC (N), MPCC (Shore), Cal Club, San Fran, Epsom, Casa Serena, Hayling, Co. Sligo, Strandhill, Carne, Cleeve Hill

David Cronan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Second Trump Course at Balmedie
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2023, 08:15:01 AM »
Full details here.
https://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/content/ground-broken-on-new-course-at-trump-international-golf-links?fbclid=IwAR3UBrBBP3dOujT5NeUzNEeCGiP0uauqPKxSgbYNhB7CEf7lIc6Ku2BcJnk


"We are going to build a great golf course that aims to replicate the outstanding championship links we already have here, and many believe to believe to be the greatest golf course in the world," said Trump.



I've not played so have no opinion on the existing course, but other than members of the Trump Organization and Trump Family, I don't think I've ever heard it called "the greatest golf course in the world."


Can anybody shed light on this claim?

Josh Bills

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Second Trump Course at Balmedie
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2023, 08:57:13 AM »
Here are the routing plan documents which were approved in October of 2020.  I attempted to do a rough overlay on a Google map. 





Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Second Trump Course at Balmedie
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2023, 10:11:04 AM »
Adrian


For some reason I think Trump "only" paid £35m for Turnberry. I seem to recall that number. He may have then spent quite a lot of money on the property after purchase but the numbers they quote are often nonsense. For instance, you often read of the £100m course at Balmedie when I believe the Irish construction company were paid c.£7m.


Anyway, I note he was in todays paper shown cutting a ribbon. Hard to believe he'd being doing that unless he wasn't now going to go ahead and complete the course. He'd look rather foolish otherwise.


Niall
This is the text/email I had, it does not state he had spent 200M here, the main money was obs spent on the hotel which appears to have been the non return. dec 2021c
Morning
 
Ok to be clear, they are seeking 100m for the whole shooting match- 2 courses, hotel, clubhouse, lodges plus the 20m devel land. I was awaiting a more detailed site plan of there whole thing, hence the delay- should have shortly…speak then.
 
Purchase will include hotel, lodges, two golf courses, clubhouse and development land. This would suit a trophy purchaser looking to make a statement acquisition. More positively is the resort could secure the Open once again which is a huge positive.
 
I genuinely believe this is a great opportunity for your hotel investor to consider.
 
Wait to hear from you with initial thoughts.
 
Thanks
 
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Josh Bills

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Second Trump Course at Balmedie
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2023, 10:23:21 AM »
Here is the original master plan that I could find.



Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Second Trump Course at Balmedie
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2023, 11:07:24 AM »
Can guarantee this one will cause even more uproar than the first because it’s over dunes used by the public and families. Right next to the public car park.


At least the land the first course occupied was far quieter and removed from public leisure activities.

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Second Trump Course at Balmedie
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2023, 11:13:10 AM »
Here is the original master plan that I could find.





That is very old because layout and footprint of original course is incorrect and was changed.

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Second Trump Course at Balmedie
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2023, 01:42:37 PM »
Went for a walk over the southern end of the new course today. Routing plan doesn’t jive with some of the tee pads and hole corridors that I saw roughed in.


Disappointing amount of landscape manipulation and sand mining for such a natural site.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Second Trump Course at Balmedie
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2023, 03:06:34 PM »
Seems to butt-up right against the Country Park boundary and a little further north use (decimate?) one of the most amazing sand dunes I’ve seen in the UK. Walked to the top of it once. Only once though. Damn high and damn soft sand. Legs have never been the same since.
Can’t help but think that a municipal 9-hole course linked to the Country Park mightn’t have been more suitable golfing use of the land (SSSI etc accepted). Indeed, apparently once upon a time some folks used to knock a wee white ball about in this area with some sticks. Might even have been a couple of rough-raked putting surfaces in the area.
Atb