OT - Why the fetishization of Amateurs?

[Wayne_Kozun]

At the Masters they always play up the Amateur angle.
But isn't that very outdated?
Back in the day, including Bobby Jones' day, Amateurs were gentleman of the upper class and pros were working class.  At the time no self-respecting club would ever allow the pro to enter the clubhouse.  So the pro - amateur split was more of a class distinction than anything else.  And that carried over into the Olympic games until a few decades ago.  And today that whole amateur distinction is getting blurrier with NIL.

Today it is more of an age thing.  Amateur are pre-professionals in almost all instances.  Amateur competitions are pretty much U22 championships.  The one category that is more similar to old school amateurs is the mid-am category.
So what's the big deal about amateurs?  Why not just give spots in the Masters, or other tournaments, to the top 5-10 players that are under 22, regardless of their status?  Why carry on with this Victorian-age distinction that is born out of an elitist/classist/racist history doesn't have a ton or relevance anymore?

[John Kavanaugh]

With millennials working from home you should see a gradual rise in age of elite amateurs. Barstool sports will start an academy funded solely through NIL. The old Tour, LIV and Barstool Golf. Things are looking up!!! Sponsored by FanDuel.

[Jim_Coleman]

   It’s all about burnishing Augusta’s image.  I suppose there’s nothing wrong with that.

[Steve Lang]

   too bad Ken Venturi didn't win the Masters back in '57...

[PCCraig]

Because they play for the love of the game?


Sure, Sam Bennet will someday soon turn pro. But I don't see anything wrong with celebrating amateurs, in particular those over 25 y/o, that play for their own pride and not money.

[Jim Sherma]

The amateur/professional split was historically very much centered around class. I many ways golf is the only sport that rhetorically holds onto the distinction. I certainly think that big time college golf has passed the line where the players are certainly not amateurs in any sense of the word. It's true that they do not get paid based on their score that day (although I guess it's possible that NIL money is a function of tv time or something else), but the day to day perks of travel, coaching, room and board, equipment and now NIL money makes it fairly clear that they are being remunerated based on whether or not they play golf at a certain level.


When I think of amateur golfers I see someone with a job who pays their green fees/club dues, tournament entry fees, travel costs along with the buying their own equipment. Having scholarship college golfers playing in the state and USGA headline amateur events is really no different than having mini tour players except the college players probably get paid more.

[Tim Martin]

Does anyone think that elite amateurs playing in the U.S. Amateur, British Amateur, Northeast Amateur, Pacific Coast Amateur etc. are not professionals by another name? Look at the scoring and past winners and it’s an easy call. I don’t have an issue with it but let’s be honest.

[Edward Glidewell]

The Mid-Am champion does get a Masters invite, so it's not solely the pre-professionals -- but yes, they are the vast majority of amateurs at the Masters/US Open/Open Championship.

[Jeff Evagues]

The amateur/professional split was historically very much centered around class. I many ways golf is the only sport that rhetorically holds onto the distinction. I certainly think that big time college golf has passed the line where the players are certainly not amateurs in any sense of the word. It's true that they do not get paid based on their score that day (although I guess it's possible that NIL money is a function of tv time or something else), but the day to day perks of travel, coaching, room and board, equipment and now NIL money makes it fairly clear that they are being remunerated based on whether or not they play golf at a certain level.


When I think of amateur golfers I see someone with a job who pays their green fees/club dues, tournament entry fees, travel costs along with the buying their own equipment. Having scholarship college golfers playing in the state and USGA headline amateur events is really no different than having mini tour players except the college players probably get paid more.

Thats why they got rid of the Public Links championship. It turned into the US Amateur part 2.

[John Bouffard]

The USGA published a book on this subject that I read many years ago. I think the title was "Sir Walter and Mr. Jones." Interesting read.


I like the amateur invites at The Masters. If that constitutes a fetish, I guess I'm guilty.

[David_Tepper]

Wasn't there a time when all the players on the Walker Cup team were invited to play in the Masters?

They were in 1951!

https://www.nytimes.com/1951/04/01/archives/entire-us-walker-cup-team-entered-in-masters-golf-tourney-at.html

[David_Elvins]

At the Masters they always play up the Amateur angle.
But isn't that very outdated?

Who was the last person to win the US Amateur and not turn pro?  Fred Ridley.  The club membership has quite a few career amateurs other than Mr Ridley and obviously they still value amateur golf in their club and it makes sense that they would value amateur golf in their tournament.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Who was the last person to win the US Amateur and not turn pro?  Fred Ridley.  The club membership has quite a few career amateurs other than Mr Ridley and obviously they still value amateur golf in their club and it makes sense that they would value amateur golf in their tournament.

And the last (and only, I think) reigning U.S. Am champion to win the Masters was Tiger Woods in 1997. (OT, but I find it an interesting bit of trivia.)

[Carl Johnson]

No fan of the AGNC here, but it's their tourney and they can do with it what they like.  They never asked to be a "major" either.  Bennett was wearing sponsor logos from college NIL as I understand it, so he was already a pro in my book, but that didn't bother Ridley et al.  Still, it adds a twist that makes the Masters a little different from the run of the mill pro tourney and the Opens.  The fun thing about the Masters (in addition to the "amateur" drama) is all the shaved grass, especially that running into water.  Nothing more dramatic that watching the ball's slow start, steadily picking up speed, and then plop into the drink.

[Jeff Evagues]

The Mid-Am champion does get a Masters invite, so it's not solely the pre-professionals -- but yes, they are the vast majority of amateurs at the Masters/US Open/Open Championship.

I think most mid-am winners lately have been "renistated" amateurs.

[Mike Wagner]

At the Masters they always play up the Amateur angle.
But isn't that very outdated?
Back in the day, including Bobby Jones' day, Amateurs were gentleman of the upper class and pros were working class.  At the time no self-respecting club would ever allow the pro to enter the clubhouse.  So the pro - amateur split was more of a class distinction than anything else.  And that carried over into the Olympic games until a few decades ago.  And today that whole amateur distinction is getting blurrier with NIL.

Today it is more of an age thing.  Amateur are pre-professionals in almost all instances.  Amateur competitions are pretty much U22 championships.  The one category that is more similar to old school amateurs is the mid-am category.
So what's the big deal about amateurs?  Why not just give spots in the Masters, or other tournaments, to the top 5-10 players that are under 22, regardless of their status?  Why carry on with this Victorian-age distinction that is born out of an elitist/classist/racist history doesn't have a ton or relevance anymore?

I guess people can find fault in anything these days .. and of course the words elitist, classist, and racist had to be involved. Sigh.

[SL_Solow]

Bob Jones is the President in Perpetuity.  His record is revered at the club.  It all stems from that.  Make of it what you will

[Max Prokopy]

I don't know about fetish but I think staying on site and having one am play with the defending champ is pretty cool.  It's an equally "interesting" timeline as the Freddy/Larry Mize winsome nostalgia that they show. 


FYI, college players could have agents before NIL and now they can get paid (like it or not). 

[PCCraig]

The Mid-Am champion does get a Masters invite, so it's not solely the pre-professionals -- but yes, they are the vast majority of amateurs at the Masters/US Open/Open Championship.

I think most mid-am winners lately have been "renistated" amateurs.

I could be wrong but I don't believe Stew Hagastaad ever turned pro?

[JohnVDB]

The Mid-Am champion does get a Masters invite, so it's not solely the pre-professionals -- but yes, they are the vast majority of amateurs at the Masters/US Open/Open Championship.

I think most mid-am winners lately have been "renistated" amateurs.

Jeff,
I think you're mistaken.  While a large number of the players in the Mid-Am are reinstated most of the winners have not been.
Going back a to 2002:
2002 - George Zahringer - I don't believe he was ever a pro
2003, 2009, 2010, 2012 - Nathan Smith - Definitely not
2004 - Austin Eaton III - Again, I don't believe he was
2005 - Kevin Marsh - Reinstated
2006 - Dave Womack - I don't think so
2007 - Trip Kuehne - Definitely not
2008 - Steve Wilson - He was reinstated
2011 - Randal Lewis - definitely not - per David Cronin
2013 - Michael McCoy - Yes, but only because he went to Q-School out of college when that just going made you a pro.  He has said he wouldn't haven't turned pro if he wasn't required to do so back then.
2014 - Scott Harvey - Reinstated
2015 - Sammy Schmitz - Reinstated
2016, 2021 - Stewart Hagestad - Definitely not
2017 - Matt Parziale - Reinstated
2018 - Kevin O'Connell - Reinstated
2019 - Lukas Michel - Definitely Not
2020 - No championship
2022 - Matthew McClean - Definitely Not
So, since 2002 there have been more players who never turned pro than did. Of those that did they really only very short runs as pros and none every came close to any success as pros.  I don't know why this should be such a controversial thing.  Every person should be entitled to explore their options. 

Over the past 10 years, the USGA setup very specific requirements on how long players have to wait based on the number of events, cuts and other levels of success that players have had on professional tours.  Some of these have resulted in players having much longer waiting periods than in the past.

[A.G._Crockett]

I think the PGA including teaching pros is a lovely gesture.  I think The Masters inviting amateurs is a lovely gesture.  I think lovely gestures are in short supply, and I think there are plenty of opportunities for professional golfers to play professional golf.
I don't know what will become of Sam Bennett, but he was a nice story. 

[David Cronan]

The Mid-Am champion does get a Masters invite, so it's not solely the pre-professionals -- but yes, they are the vast majority of amateurs at the Masters/US Open/Open Championship.

I think most mid-am winners lately have been "renistated" amateurs.

Jeff,
I think you're mistaken.  While a large number of the players in the Mid-Am are reinstated most of the winners have not been.
Going back a to 2002:
2011 - Randal Lewis - I don't think so

John,


Randy never turned pro. In fact, he qualified for the US Senior Am last year. I can speak with some authority on this as he and his wife have a cottage 3 doors down from my family's in Michigan.

[JohnVDB]

The Mid-Am champion does get a Masters invite, so it's not solely the pre-professionals -- but yes, they are the vast majority of amateurs at the Masters/US Open/Open Championship.

I think most mid-am winners lately have been "renistated" amateurs.

Jeff,
I think you're mistaken.  While a large number of the players in the Mid-Am are reinstated most of the winners have not been.
Going back a to 2002:
2011 - Randal Lewis - I don't think so

John,


Randy never turned pro. In fact, he qualified for the US Senior Am last year. I can speak with some authority on this as he and his wife have a cottage 3 doors down from my family's in Michigan.

Thanks David. I wasn’t sure and I couldn’t find anything one way or the other so I didn’t want to say he didn’t for sure.