[Carl Johnson]

I guess I'm too lazy to figure this out myself, but I have two questions about the new posting rules.  If you think about posting 10 or more holes but less than 18, you first think about playing 1 - 15, then the match is over and you play no more.  You post 1 - 15 by hole and GHIN takes care of the rest.  However, does the same rule apply if you play hole 1, skip 2 (to get past a slow group) and then play the rest of the holes.  Do you post individually for 1 and then 3 through 18, and let GHIN figure your hole 2 score?


Second, if you play 9 holes, but those holes are 5-9 and 10-13, do you post those by hole, or as a nine hole score?  My thinking is that the system will call for a front 9 or back 9, and won't be able to handle the combination I've suggested.  Or do you just not post?


The quick guides aren't clear, and the entire rule book is not something I want to go through unless I must.  I hope one of you gurus will have the answers for me.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

However, does the same rule apply if you play hole 1, skip 2 (to get past a slow group) and then play the rest of the holes.  Do you post individually for 1 and then 3 through 18, and let GHIN figure your hole 2 score?

Yes, because you've played a rated nine holes. You can't play every other hole, or holes 1,3-5, 7-9, 10-12, and 14-17.

Second, if you play 9 holes, but those holes are 5-9 and 10-13, do you post those by hole, or as a nine hole score?

No, that's not a rated nine holes.

[Carl Johnson]

Erik, thanks.  Just thought of another question.  Say on the hole-2-skip mentioned above -- what if we had to skip because the hole was closed all day for maintenance work.  Would we then go back to the method of posting for that hole based on par-plus-handicap-stroke, if any?  That seems to be what the handicap rule book says, and that's what we've done in the past, but I am not sure.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Erik, thanks.  Just thought of another question.  Say on the hole-2-skip mentioned above -- what if we had to skip because the hole was closed all day for maintenance work.  Would we then go back to the method of posting for that hole based on par-plus-handicap-stroke, if any?  That seems to be what the handicap rule book says, and that's what we've done in the past, but I am not sure.

Are you asking about when you already have a handicap index, but you're just looking to play nine (or eight) holes?
https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/2024-revision/2024-Rules-of-Handicapping-USGA.pdf

This used to be seven holes, and you'd post NDB (net double bogey) on the other holes, but now it's nine (which will be converted to 18), or 10+ holes for an 18-hole score.

2.2b For a 9-hole Score

2.2 Minimum Number of Holes Played for Score to be Acceptable

For an 18-hole score to be acceptable for handicap purposes, a minimum of 10 holes must be played.

For a 9-hole score to be acceptable for handicap purposes, all 9 holes must be played. If a player has not played at least 9 holes, the score is not acceptable for handicap purposes.

Note: An acceptable 9-hole score must be played over 9-holes with a current Course Rating and Slope Rating (see Rule 2.1).


You'll want to look at 3.2 also.

[Carl Johnson]

Erik, I wasn't clear enough, I guess.  Assume all players have established handicaps.  Four players arrive at club to play an 18 hole 4-ball match.  They find that hole number 2 is closed beginning that day for maintenance work for one week, but they want to play anyway.  So, they play hole 1, skip 2 (closed for maintenance) and play the remaining 16 holes, for 17 played and number 2 hole skipped.  This takes place after the new posting rules come into play on Jan. 16.  Do they post the 17 holes they played hole by hole and let GHIN figure in hole 2, or do they post hole 2 the "old way" with par plus any handicap stroke allocated to the hole?


This is exactly the same question I asked before, except in the first case the players skipped no. 2 in order to get ahead of a slow group.  In that case you answered they'd post 17 holes by the hole and let GHIN fill in no. 2. Here in my new hypothetical they skipped number 2 because the hole was closed for week.  My read is that they post the old way since the hole was closed to all play, but I am uncertain.

[A.G._Crockett]

My club will be in exactly this situation in the early part of 2024 as we complete a bunker renovation project, with a different hole closed each day.


My understanding is that WHY you skipped the hole is irrelevant; you’ll put in the scores for the holes you did play, and the algorithm will fill in the blanks.  We’ve already gotten an email from our Handicap Committee explaining this procedure.  And I must say, I like this a LOT better than the current net par method.


One of the guys I was playing with yesterday was complaining about the 9 hole score change.  He was adamant because he contended he plays 18 hole rounds where he has a great side and a bad side, as we all do.  No matter how many times or ways I tried to explain that not only does he also have lots of rounds where the “bad patch” is in the middle of the round, but that no matter what, the new method will be more accurate and representative than having a 9 hole score combined with another 9 hole score shot 2 months later in different conditions and on a different course.  He just wasn’t having any of it.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Do they post the 17 holes they played hole by hole and let GHIN figure in hole 2, or do they post hole 2 the "old way" with par plus any handicap stroke allocated to the hole?

See 3.2 in the handicap manual I linked to above.

3.2b/2 – Use of Net Par for a Hole Not Played
In certain circumstances, and only when approved by the Authorized Association, a score of net par can be used for a hole or holes not played, in place of the expected score. Examples of situations where a score of net par would be acceptable include:

• When the player is required to submit an adjusted gross score, including scores for any holes not played, or
• When one or more holes are out of play due to construction or maintenance, which affects all players over a period of time.

---

To me, that means the AGA has to allow it, and it's probably a hole that's closed for more than the afternoon while they work on the bunker or something.

So, if you skip it because they're mowing the green on a par three and you don't want to wait, it'll post your expected score. If a hole is closed for three weeks (and the AGA has approved it), net par is possible if not likely.

[A.G._Crockett]

Do they post the 17 holes they played hole by hole and let GHIN figure in hole 2, or do they post hole 2 the "old way" with par plus any handicap stroke allocated to the hole?

See 3.2 in the handicap manual I linked to above.

3.2b/2 – Use of Net Par for a Hole Not Played
In certain circumstances, and only when approved by the Authorized Association, a score of net par can be used for a hole or holes not played, in place of the expected score. Examples of situations where a score of net par would be acceptable include:

• When the player is required to submit an adjusted gross score, including scores for any holes not played, or
• When one or more holes are out of play due to construction or maintenance, which affects all players over a period of time.

---

To me, that means the AGA has to allow it, and it's probably a hole that's closed for more than the afternoon while they work on the bunker or something.

So, if you skip it because they're mowing the green on a par three and you don't want to wait, it'll post your expected score. If a hole is closed for three weeks (and the AGA has approved it), net par is possible if not likely.

In our case, the longest any hole has been closed since the project started the first week of November has been a day or two; the crew does prep work (excavating, drainage, etc) the moves to another hole and repeats.  They don’t pour the capillary concrete until they have 4 or 5 holes completely prepped; then they pour on one hole at a time.  Same with putting in the new sand after the concrete is in. If a hole is open for play, but the bunkers aren’t completed, we play the bunkers on that hole as GUR.


So yesterday 17 was closed while they put in sand; today it’s the same thing on 18.  When they finish 18, they will have completed work on all the holes where they have prepped, and they’ll move all the equipment to a different part of the course and start over. 


So net par now; starting in January we’ll put in hole by hole scores. 

[Erik J. Barzeski]

So net par now; starting in January we’ll put in hole by hole scores.

Yep.

[Jim Hoak]

On the issue of Par-3 or executive courses being able to be used for handicaps, I read it that it will be course-dependent for those shorter courses to proactively get a course rating and slope.  I wonder if most will?  I hope so.

[Carl Johnson]

Do they post the 17 holes they played hole by hole and let GHIN figure in hole 2, or do they post hole 2 the "old way" with par plus any handicap stroke allocated to the hole?

See 3.2 in the handicap manual I linked to above.

3.2b/2 – Use of Net Par for a Hole Not Played
In certain circumstances, and only when approved by the Authorized Association, a score of net par can be used for a hole or holes not played, in place of the expected score. Examples of situations where a score of net par would be acceptable include:

• When the player is required to submit an adjusted gross score, including scores for any holes not played, or
• When one or more holes are out of play due to construction or maintenance, which affects all players over a period of time.

---

To me, that means the AGA has to allow it, and it's probably a hole that's closed for more than the afternoon while they work on the bunker or something.

So, if you skip it because they're mowing the green on a par three and you don't want to wait, it'll post your expected score. If a hole is closed for three weeks (and the AGA has approved it), net par is possible if not likely.

Erik, thanks again.  That was my interpretation, too, but not 100%.  I expect over time (short) some of the nuances will be handled.

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