Cabot Highlands

[Ben Stephens]

Are these large sandscapes rather than bunkers?


Jeff - what you are referring to is the 16th a long carry over water pretty much just above the middle of the image. The proposed Palmer course didnt have this they went around it.


Cheers
Ben

[Ben Stephens]

.

[Marty Bonnar]

Judging by the Google Earth aerial, there was a helluva lot of archaeological work done.

https://earth.app.goo.gl/DFQgth


Did they find anything of interest? A Viking long boat or a Pictish kingdom’s castle, perchance?


 
F.

[Ben Stephens]

Judging by the Google Earth aerial, there was a helluva lot of archaeological work done.

https://earth.app.goo.gl/DFQgth


Did they find anything of interest? A Viking long boat or a Pictish kingdom’s castle, perchance?


 
F.

Eeek that survey won't be cheap either - its very expensive these days. Makes me wonder what the budget is for the whole project

[Tom_Doak]

Judging by the Google Earth aerial, there was a helluva lot of archaeological work done.

https://earth.app.goo.gl/DFQgth

Did they find anything of interest? A Viking long boat or a Pictish kingdom’s castle, perchance?

I got a note from Clyde the other day that they had found a chariot wheel (!)


The archaeology is still ongoing and it's making our progress rather slow.  We could avoid it if we just capped everything with sand, but where would we get all the sand from if we didn't dig somewhere?

[Peter Sayegh]

I got a note from Clyde the other day that they had found a chariot wheel (!)


The archaeology is still ongoing and it's making our progress rather slow.  We could avoid it if we just capped everything with sand, but where would we get all the sand from if we didn't dig somewhere?

So that hole already has a name?

[Ben Stephens]

Judging by the Google Earth aerial, there was a helluva lot of archaeological work done.

https://earth.app.goo.gl/DFQgth

Did they find anything of interest? A Viking long boat or a Pictish kingdom’s castle, perchance?

I got a note from Clyde the other day that they had found a chariot wheel (!)


The archaeology is still ongoing and it's making our progress rather slow.  We could avoid it if we just capped everything with sand, but where would we get all the sand from if we didn't dig somewhere?

Clyde - should that hole be called 'Swing Low Sweet Chariot' 

[Wayne_Kozun]

Clyde - should that hole be called 'Swing Low Sweet Chariot' 

How would Scottish rugby supporters feel about that?

[David_Tepper]

From a Cabot Highlands email I just received, announcing that construction has begun on the new course:

"While this new golf course will feature it's own unique qualities, it will offer the same stunning vistas and complement our existing championship golf course, Castle Stuart Golf Links"

Looks like the existing course will continue to be known as Castle Stuart.

[cary lichtenstein]

Wow, some on this site are touchy about names. Is this an example of WOKE?

[David_Tepper]

Not touchy. Not woke. Just stating facts and offering information.

[Michael Dugger]

Wow, some on this site are touchy about names. Is this an example of WOKE?

Please don't infect this website with such banter.

[Tim_Weiman]

Judging by the Google Earth aerial, there was a helluva lot of archaeological work done.

https://earth.app.goo.gl/DFQgth

Did they find anything of interest? A Viking long boat or a Pictish kingdom’s castle, perchance?

I got a note from Clyde the other day that they had found a chariot wheel (!)


The archaeology is still ongoing and it's making our progress rather slow.  We could avoid it if we just capped everything with sand, but where would we get all the sand from if we didn't dig somewhere?

Tom,


Congratulations on this project. Based on the rendering it looks to be really cool and definitely a course I want to see and play.


Tim

[Mike Worth]

I’m not sure if this is a Golf or marketing question, but here goes:


I’ve read online that the facility will have “an expanded 11,000 square foot clubhouse with new dining area, a whisky and cigar bar, locker rooms, as well as 25 cottages with modern upscale features.”


I don’t know if that’s a direct quote from their website or if it’s what a golf magazine wrote BUT this sounds like it’s being built for Americans.

Here’s my actual question: is there market research that indicates this is what Americans want, or is this what someone THINKS that Americans want or expect?  Or is adding these luxury features simply a mechanism to justify £300 per round?

[Wayne_Kozun]

You are thinking about this as a local golfer who is playing the course for the day and heading out.  Consider a golfer staying onsite.

Once you have significant onsite accomodations, as they are doing with the cottages, then you will need a clubhouse with more food and beverage options.  Golfers staying onsite will want to be able to get everything right at the resort, especially if they are playing 36 holes per day.  That is the case at high end golf resorts here in North America, like Cabot Cape Breton, Streamsong, Bandon, etc.
Those resorts are set up so that you can visit for several days and never leave the property, and in some of those resorts there are very few options for eating nearby.  That is less likely to be the case at a place like Castle Stuart, where golfers will likely be traveling to other golf courses, but some golfers may use it as a home base for a few days in the Inverness region while playing Dornoch, Nairn, etc.  So once they are done for the day and come back to their home base at the resort they will want to be able to get a nice meal at the resort, and a bar to have a few drinks and a good time after dinner.

[Tim_Weiman]

I’m not sure if this is a Golf or marketing question, but here goes:


I’ve read online that the facility will have “an expanded 11,000 square foot clubhouse with new dining area, a whisky and cigar bar, locker rooms, as well as 25 cottages with modern upscale features.”


I don’t know if that’s a direct quote from their website or if it’s what a golf magazine wrote BUT this sounds like it’s being built for Americans.

Here’s my actual question: is there market research that indicates this is what Americans want, or is this what someone THINKS that Americans want or expect?  Or is adding these luxury features simply a mechanism to justify £300 per round?

Mike,


Years ago a long time resident of Ballybunion told me “Americans aren’t like you and Neil (Regan). They want things nice”.

[Mike Worth]

.

[Mike Worth]

You are thinking about this as a local golfer who is playing the course for the day and heading out.  Consider a golfer staying onsite.

Once you have significant onsite accomodations, as they are doing with the cottages, then you will need a clubhouse with more food and beverage options.  Golfers staying onsite will want to be able to get everything right at the resort, especially if they are playing 36 holes per day.  That is the case at high end golf resorts here in North America, like Cabot Cape Breton, Streamsong, Bandon, etc.
Those resorts are set up so that you can visit for several days and never leave the property, and in some of those resorts there are very few options for eating nearby.  That is less likely to be the case at a place like Castle Stuart, where golfers will likely be traveling to other golf courses, but some golfers may use it as a home base for a few days in the Inverness region while playing Dornoch, Nairn, etc.  So once they are done for the day and come back to their home base at the resort they will want to be able to get a nice meal at the resort, and a bar to have a few drinks and a good time after dinner.

I note the use of the word “resort” 6 times in the explanation provided (I’m on the ferry from Oban to Craignure so I had time to count lol).


I think that’s my angst with the concept. The rush to export the US resort model as if that is the only way one can enjoy golf. 


I mean why visit Scotland, venture out after golf, and check out local things in another country when you can simply hole-up in your fortress Americana.

[Tom_Doak]

Those resorts are set up so that you can visit for several days and never leave the property, and in some of those resorts there are very few options for eating nearby.  That is less likely to be the case at a place like Castle Stuart, where golfers will likely be traveling to other golf courses, but some golfers may use it as a home base for a few days in the Inverness region while playing Dornoch, Nairn, etc.  So once they are done for the day and come back to their home base at the resort they will want to be able to get a nice meal at the resort, and a bar to have a few drinks and a good time after dinner.

I note the use of the word “resort” 6 times in the explanation provided (I’m on the ferry from Oban to Craignure so I had time to count lol).

I think that’s my angst with the concept. The rush to export the US resort model as if that is the only way one can enjoy golf. 

I mean why visit Scotland, venture out after golf, and check out local things in another country when you can simply hole-up in your fortress Americana.

It's easy to blame Americans for everything - and they are the primary target, no doubt - but let's not forget the developer of this project is from Canada.


There are a couple of reasons why they are going to this model.  One, it takes a LOT of $$$$ to develop a new course nowadays, and you don't make it back easily just from selling green fees, even if those green fees are $300.  You make it back more efficiently if you can also sell those people their lodging and dinner at prices that are marked up for the convenience.  The reason to build a second course at Cabot Highlands is (a) to get people to stay there to play both courses, and (b) to get people to stay there their whole trip and shuttle them over to Dornoch or Nairn or wherever else they want to play.


The second thing is, you can't drink and drive anymore, so you can only enjoy the post-round pub life adjacent to where you are staying.  Golf clubs used to be able to count on at minimum selling each golfer a couple of beers after they played, but that doesn't work anymore unless you are very close to where they are staying.  So the business model is to provide it all in once place.  One of the reasons golfers enjoy Bandon so much is that they never have to think about any of that!


I do understand your point that this prevents you from interacting with the locals, but not entirely.  All of the staff at Castle Stuart are locals and you have the same conversations with them that you would in a pub down the road.  The question is whether you also get to interact with local golfers, and the rising price of golf is certainly a factor in stratifying the market.


P.S.  None of that is a "golf question".  At some point, hopefully, the discussion comes back to whether the new golf course is worth the trip to play.  It's a bit early for that.

[Sean_A]

You are thinking about this as a local golfer who is playing the course for the day and heading out.  Consider a golfer staying onsite.

Once you have significant onsite accomodations, as they are doing with the cottages, then you will need a clubhouse with more food and beverage options.  Golfers staying onsite will want to be able to get everything right at the resort, especially if they are playing 36 holes per day.  That is the case at high end golf resorts here in North America, like Cabot Cape Breton, Streamsong, Bandon, etc.
Those resorts are set up so that you can visit for several days and never leave the property, and in some of those resorts there are very few options for eating nearby.  That is less likely to be the case at a place like Castle Stuart, where golfers will likely be traveling to other golf courses, but some golfers may use it as a home base for a few days in the Inverness region while playing Dornoch, Nairn, etc.  So once they are done for the day and come back to their home base at the resort they will want to be able to get a nice meal at the resort, and a bar to have a few drinks and a good time after dinner.

I note the use of the word “resort” 6 times in the explanation provided (I’m on the ferry from Oban to Craignure so I had time to count lol).


I think that’s my angst with the concept. The rush to export the US resort model as if that is the only way one can enjoy golf. 


I mean why visit Scotland, venture out after golf, and check out local things in another country when you can simply hole-up in your fortress Americana.

Mike

You don't have to drink the entire glass of kool-aid to enjoy the course.

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

An interesting aspect of some recent ‘resort’ type courses in Scotland is that they are not open Nov-March whereas all the members clubs and muni’s nearby are.
Also some are operating at 15 min tee-time intervals.
Both beg a few questions when it comes to economics, prices and costs.
Atb

[Mike Worth]

Those resorts are set up so that you can visit for several days and never leave the property, and in some of those resorts there are very few options for eating nearby.  That is less likely to be the case at a place like Castle Stuart, where golfers will likely be traveling to other golf courses, but some golfers may use it as a home base for a few days in the Inverness region while playing Dornoch, Nairn, etc.  So once they are done for the day and come back to their home base at the resort they will want to be able to get a nice meal at the resort, and a bar to have a few drinks and a good time after dinner.

I note the use of the word “resort” 6 times in the explanation provided (I’m on the ferry from Oban to Craignure so I had time to count lol).

I think that’s my angst with the concept. The rush to export the US resort model as if that is the only way one can enjoy golf. 

I mean why visit Scotland, venture out after golf, and check out local things in another country when you can simply hole-up in your fortress Americana.

P.S.  None of that is a "golf question".  At some point, hopefully, the discussion comes back to whether the new golf course is worth the trip to play.  It's a bit early for that.

Well, thankfully, I phrased my original point as not knowing if it was a golf or marketing question.  I wouldn’t want to take a flaming blue dart from another poster because I asked a non-golf question.


I have no doubt the golf course will be good. I didn’t think that needed to be said.  And will likely be a great paring with Castle Stuart and the other courses mentioned.


I’m notionally planning a trip back over here to Scotland in a few years once for new course is open and matured. 


I’m going to try and avoid staying at the “resort“ unless of course, there’s a substantial markup in green fee for non-resort guests. Isn’t that part of the resort business model?


Perhaps a deciding factor and something.  (I didn’t see mentioned – – is there going to be a spa? I didn’t see the spa mentioned) yes, a wee bit of sarcasm).

[Wayne_Kozun]

You are thinking about this as a local golfer who is playing the course for the day and heading out.  Consider a golfer staying onsite.

Once you have significant onsite accomodations, as they are doing with the cottages, then you will need a clubhouse with more food and beverage options.  Golfers staying onsite will want to be able to get everything right at the resort, especially if they are playing 36 holes per day.  That is the case at high end golf resorts here in North America, like Cabot Cape Breton, Streamsong, Bandon, etc.
Those resorts are set up so that you can visit for several days and never leave the property, and in some of those resorts there are very few options for eating nearby.  That is less likely to be the case at a place like Castle Stuart, where golfers will likely be traveling to other golf courses, but some golfers may use it as a home base for a few days in the Inverness region while playing Dornoch, Nairn, etc.  So once they are done for the day and come back to their home base at the resort they will want to be able to get a nice meal at the resort, and a bar to have a few drinks and a good time after dinner.

I note the use of the word “resort” 6 times in the explanation provided (I’m on the ferry from Oban to Craignure so I had time to count lol).


I think that’s my angst with the concept. The rush to export the US resort model as if that is the only way one can enjoy golf. 


I mean why visit Scotland, venture out after golf, and check out local things in another country when you can simply hole-up in your fortress Americana.

It isn't like this is just an American/Canadian thing.  One of the earliest golf resorts would be Gleneagles which opened 99 years ago.  And Cabot is in the business of building and operating world class golf courses with attached resorts.  That was their original model in Cape Breton, and they are exporting that model to St. Lucia, Florida (Citrus Farms), the Scottish Highlands and the BC Rocky Mountains.
And I would hope that the resort would not be fortress Americana/Canadiana.  It would have a very strong local flavour.  That is certainly the case at the original Cabot property in Cape Breton.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Those resorts are set up so that you can visit for several days and never leave the property, and in some of those resorts there are very few options for eating nearby.  That is less likely to be the case at a place like Castle Stuart, where golfers will likely be traveling to other golf courses, but some golfers may use it as a home base for a few days in the Inverness region while playing Dornoch, Nairn, etc.  So once they are done for the day and come back to their home base at the resort they will want to be able to get a nice meal at the resort, and a bar to have a few drinks and a good time after dinner.

I note the use of the word “resort” 6 times in the explanation provided (I’m on the ferry from Oban to Craignure so I had time to count lol).

I think that’s my angst with the concept. The rush to export the US resort model as if that is the only way one can enjoy golf. 

I mean why visit Scotland, venture out after golf, and check out local things in another country when you can simply hole-up in your fortress Americana.

P.S.  None of that is a "golf question".  At some point, hopefully, the discussion comes back to whether the new golf course is worth the trip to play.  It's a bit early for that.

Well, thankfully, I phrased my original point as not knowing if it was a golf or marketing question.  I wouldn’t want to take a flaming blue dart from another poster because I asked a non-golf question.


I have no doubt the golf course will be good. I didn’t think that needed to be said.  And will likely be a great paring with Castle Stuart and the other courses mentioned.


I’m notionally planning a trip back over here to Scotland in a few years once for new course is open and matured. 


I’m going to try and avoid staying at the “resort“ unless of course, there’s a substantial markup in green fee for non-resort guests. Perhaps a deciding factor and something I didn’t see mentioned – – is there going to be a spa? I didn’t see the spa mentioned) yes, a wee bit of sarcasm).

Cabot Cape Breton has been open for a decade and does not yet have a spa, although it may have one in the future.  Does Gleneagles have a spa?  Does that detract from the quality of the golf? 

[David_Tepper]

"The rush to export the US resort model as if that is the only way one can enjoy golf."

The notion that resort golf (or a golf resort ) is somehow a US/American concept exported to Britain is very much mistaken. The original golf resorts (Gleneagles, Turnberry, etc.) were established in Scotland 100 or more years ago, in the heyday of rail travel.

They featured all the attributes that the modern golf resorts offer - luxurious rooms, fine dining, etc. Places like Royal Dornoch and Cruden Bay were golf resorts back in the 1920's, with grand hotels adjacent to the golf courses.

The original promotional materials for Castle Stuart stated a clear intention to build a golf resort and made specific reference to places like Gleneagles and Turnberry.

The notion that British/Scottish golfers don't like things that are "nice" is wrong. Anyone who has been inside the R&A clubhouse can vouch for that.