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Mike Bodo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Warmouth Sands
« on: February 27, 2023, 11:41:27 PM »
To keep things current and fresh as it concerns new golf courses recently opened, opening soon or in the developmental phase - both domestic and internationallhy - I'm interested in hearing and promoting projects from those amongst the GCA contingent in support of their efforts. To that end, our own Mike Young is building an 18 hole municipal golf course in Vidalia, GA called Warmouth Sands that's scheduled to open sometime in 2024. First, hats off to Mike for taking a muni project on. I applaud anyone willing to give of themselves to public works projects, as lord knows they aren't the most lucrative. However, if done and managed correctly, they can provide a lasting legacy. Second, this project ties in nicely to a thread recenly posted on Muni Golf in America.


While destination golf courses have been a huge benefactor of the recent golf boom, lower cost and accessible public and municipal courses seem to be laggards in this resurgence. All the more respect I have for golf architects taking such benevolent projects on.


From an actual design perspective, I'd love to hear from Mike regardling the layout and routing and who he sees the course appealing to. Being a Vidalia onion fan and spending quite a bit of time in GA annually for business travel, I'll be sure to make a point to check the course out when it opens.  ;)
"90% of all putts left short are missed." - Yogi Berra

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Warmouth Sands
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2023, 10:17:39 AM »
While destination golf courses have been a huge benefactor of the recent golf boom, lower cost and accessible public and municipal courses seem to be laggards in this resurgence.


Mike,


With peace and love, this is not true at all. Municipal golf courses across the country have received a big shot in the arm in the last decade-plus. There are dozens of lower-cost, accessible municipal courses that have received significant investment from their towns/cities/counties, as well as some private funding in certain cases. These projects range from things like resurfaced greens and improved irrigation/drainage to total overhauls.


Traveling golfers should look at America's best municipal golf courses as "destination golf courses." To look down on them is to perpetuate the terrible myth that the less expensive a golf course is, the less worthy it is. In fact, the opposite is true.


For example, I would say in no uncertain terms that any golf trip to the Charleston, S.C. area that does not include at least one round at the Muni is a failure. The fact that you could play eight rounds at Muni for what it costs to play one at The Ocean Course makes Muni the more important and impressive golf place. I'm not denigrating The Ocean Course here, but rather seeking to put it in a context that helps golf battle stereotypes that need to die.


Hartford, CT is no one's idea of a golf destination. But if you were to find a nice AirBNB for a few days and play two rounds each at Keney Park and Wintonbury Hills, not only would you end up playing better and more interesting golf courses than if you had gone to any number of golf resorts, but you would also engage with your destination in a much realer way. Oh, and you would save hundreds of dollars in the process.


I have been incredibly fortunate to play golf at some very nice resorts and a few excellent private clubs in recent years, but the experiences that have excited me the most about golf and its future have revolved around courses where almost anyone can play, rather than the ones almost no one can afford.


I can't wait to see what Mike comes up with at Warmouth Sands.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Mike Bodo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Warmouth Sands
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2023, 11:16:29 AM »
Tim,


Thanks for the well thought out reply and analysis. Please note that I based my comments regarding Municipal Golf's seeming lack of new project funding based what I've seen in markets I've been to, a review of new course construction projects and comments in the media regarding public golf's seeming lack of investment compared to new private clubs, resort and destination golf courses in some phase of planning/development and or construction. Garrett Morrison, from the Fried Egg Podcast, did an excellent job fleshing this out in good detail recently, which you can listen to per the link below.


https://thefriedegg.com/fried-egg-podcast/golf-architecture-mailbag-rollback-possibilities-pet-peeves-and-public-golf-problems-5/


I'm glad you're presenting a different view of the public/muni golf landscape, because from my vantage point it seems there's very little being done to make traditional golf more accessible and affordable to a larger swath of the populace, which is all the more reason I applaud what Mike's doing at Warmouth.


Although I'm a member at private club, I frequent Leslie Park, a veary good municipal course here in Ann Arbor, MI several times a season and always enjoy my plays there. For $750.00 you can get an unlimited season pass to play it and Huron Hills, the other municipal course in town, to your hearts content. I love the examples brought forth regarding public golf in Hartford and Charleston and couldn't agree with you more, but I digress.

I'm hoping Mike will take the opportunity chime in and give us a preview or "sneak peak" of what's in store with his project at Warmouth Sands. If there are other new muni or public golf course projects in the works I'd love to hear about them as well, as perhaps myself and others have it wrong.

"90% of all putts left short are missed." - Yogi Berra

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Warmouth Sands
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2023, 12:09:57 PM »
I've been tracking municipal course work for several years. I've written a few articles over the years observing the 21st-century "Munaissance" in the U.S. This is by no means an exhaustive list but here are the courses I've noted along the way, almost all rehabbed in the last decade or so:




Baylands (CA)
Corica Park North (CA)
Corica Park South (CA)
City Park Denver (CO)
Goodwin Park (CT)
Keney Park (CT)
Blue Cypress 9 (FL)
Fort Myers (FL)
Jax Beach (FL)
Sailfish Sands Black 9 (FL)
Sailfish Sands Gold 9 (FL)
Sandhill Crane (FL)
St. Johns GC (FL)
Winter Park 9 (FL)
Bacon Park (GA)
Bayou Oaks @ City Park (LA)
Mallard (LA)
George Wright (MA)
Eisenhower (MD)
Braemar (MN)
Keller (MN)
Mooresville (NC)
Tanglewood Park (NC)
Wilmington Muni (NC)
Hendricks Field (NJ)
Rock Spring (NJ)
Tamarack East (NJ)
Pinon Hills (NM)
Rockwind Community Links (NM)
Community GC Hills (OH)
Community GC Dales (OH)
KickingBird (OK)
Jeffersonville (PA)
Charleston Muni (SC)
Overton Park (TN)
Gus Wortham (TX)
Memorial Park (TX)
Olmos Basin (TX)
Rockwood Park (TX)
Stevens Park (TX)
Belmont (VA)
Chambers Bay (WA)
Glenway (WI)




Coming soon:


Indian Pines (AL)
East Potomac Park (DC)
Langston (DC)
Rock Creek (DC)
Bobby Jones (FL)
Dunedin (FL)
Warmouth Sands (GA)
West Palm Golf Park (FL)
Francis Byrne (NJ)
Old Bridge (NJ)
Cobbs Creek (PA)
Links @ Audubon (TN)
Percy Warner (TN)


That's a quick off-hand list of more than courses receiving some level of renovation/restoration in roughly the last 10 years or coming back online soon, and it's just a fraction of the work going on out there. I know there are more than 2,000 municipal courses in the country and there are still lots of neglected local golf courses out there, of course, but I think there's momentum for the sorts of municipal golf reclamation projects that will make the game more inclusive and attractive to more people.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Mike Bodo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Warmouth Sands
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2023, 12:55:53 PM »
Tim, I don't know if you have any type of personal connection or relationship with Andy Johnson or Garrett Morrisoin at the Fried Egg, but this is the type of thing that needs to be brought to theirs and others attention, as you wouldn't think much, if any, new municipal golf projects are in the works based on their commentary. In their view and others (myself included), most new course construction seems to be catering to the high end retail golfer and golf eletists. There's definitely truth to that. To what extent is debatable.
"90% of all putts left short are missed." - Yogi Berra

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Warmouth Sands
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2023, 03:53:51 AM »
Tim

I note Michigan isn't listed. It's a different story in some places.

Mike

It is very surprising that a new affordable muni is opening. I would like to know more.

I know Mike has been anti muni if a community has other public options. He didn't think it was fair competition...he wasn't wrong.

BTW...I have long enjoyed Leslie Park and the back 9 of Huron Hills. Countless evening games at both places. HH barely escaped losing its front 9 to Miles of Golf(?). I wonder if either course is approaching peak 90s level of rounds played these days?

Ciao
« Last Edit: March 02, 2023, 04:02:18 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mike Bodo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Warmouth Sands
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2023, 11:07:55 AM »
BTW...I have long enjoyed Leslie Park and the back 9 of Huron Hills. Countless evening games at both places. HH barely escaped losing its front 9 to Miles of Golf(?). I wonder if either course is approaching peak 90s level of rounds played these days?
Ciao
Sean, you nailed it. Leslie is a fun, challenging and very affordable public course that doesn't always receive a lot of love. The renovation done to it a few years back returned many of the strategic playing angles that were lost over the years and the course consistently is in good condition. The back nine of Huron Hills is beautiful and presents a very difficult walk. You have two very diametrically opposed nine's there - one falt and the other hilly. That said, both courses (Leslie in particular) are hard to find tee times on during weekends - as is the case with most public courses in the Ann Arbor - Ypsilanti area since the pandemic. I try and avoid playing Leslie when there's league play, as too often it makes for an unberably slow day.


Next time you're in the area please hit me up and I will do the same when I venture across the pond for my 60th in 2025, when I plan to spend a week to 10 days in East Lothian checking out all the great golf to be had in the area.
"90% of all putts left short are missed." - Yogi Berra

Jeff Segol

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Warmouth Sands
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2023, 03:01:50 PM »
I've been tracking municipal course work for several years. I've written a few articles over the years observing the 21st-century "Munaissance" in the U.S. This is by no means an exhaustive list but here are the courses I've noted along the way, almost all rehabbed in the last decade or so:

Hi Tim:

If you go back a few more years, you can add Forrest's redo at Olivas Links and Buenaventura, and the Hanse renovation at Soule Park in Ojai to this list. But I agree it sort of depends where you are, and there's also a two-steps-forward-one-step-back flavor to this. In the Bay Area, we have better options than before with courses such as Baylands, Corica, Monarch Bay and Metropolitan. On the other hand San Francisco continues to do nothing with Sharp Park and Lincoln, and Harding is now so expensive that I've run into SF residents who are playing Baylands instead. We've also lost a few courses (Santa Clara Muni to development, San Geronimo (Marin) to nature. Other cities also haven't been willing to do much with their courses (Mt. View-Shoreline, for example). I think it mostly depends on whether a City's leaders want to improve the quality of the golf, or whether there's a community of golfers pushing them to do so.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          [size=78%]Baylands (CA)[/size]
Corica Park North (CA)
Corica Park South (CA)
City Park Denver (CO)
Goodwin Park (CT)
Keney Park (CT)
Blue Cypress 9 (FL)
Fort Myers (FL)
Jax Beach (FL)
Sailfish Sands Black 9 (FL)
Sailfish Sands Gold 9 (FL)
Sandhill Crane (FL)
St. Johns GC (FL)
Winter Park 9 (FL)
Bacon Park (GA)
Bayou Oaks @ City Park (LA)
Mallard (LA)
George Wright (MA)
Eisenhower (MD)
Braemar (MN)
Keller (MN)
Mooresville (NC)
Tanglewood Park (NC)
Wilmington Muni (NC)
Hendricks Field (NJ)
Rock Spring (NJ)
Tamarack East (NJ)
Pinon Hills (NM)
Rockwind Community Links (NM)
Community GC Hills (OH)
Community GC Dales (OH)
KickingBird (OK)
Jeffersonville (PA)
Charleston Muni (SC)
Overton Park (TN)
Gus Wortham (TX)
Memorial Park (TX)
Olmos Basin (TX)
Rockwood Park (TX)
Stevens Park (TX)
Belmont (VA)
Chambers Bay (WA)
Glenway (WI)




Coming soon:


Indian Pines (AL)
East Potomac Park (DC)
Langston (DC)
Rock Creek (DC)
Bobby Jones (FL)
Dunedin (FL)
Warmouth Sands (GA)
West Palm Golf Park (FL)
Francis Byrne (NJ)
Old Bridge (NJ)
Cobbs Creek (PA)
Links @ Audubon (TN)
Percy Warner (TN)


That's a quick off-hand list of more than courses receiving some level of renovation/restoration in roughly the last 10 years or coming back online soon, and it's just a fraction of the work going on out there. I know there are more than 2,000 municipal courses in the country and there are still lots of neglected local golf courses out there, of course, but I think there's momentum for the sorts of municipal golf reclamation projects that will make the game more inclusive and attractive to more people.

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