OT: Golf, But Louder

[MCirba]

Learned today that ""World's Funniest Animals" crushed LIV in TV ratings.  That's probably a good thing for mankind, frankly.


"World's Funniest Animals" is way better for your soul than watching the "Terrible trump Tour" sponsored by the Saudi Butcher Shop.

[Kalen Braley]

No one in the history of golf has proven more resilient after failure than Norman. This is going to happen. Patience.

I guess it depends how you measure "resilience". 

After his utter meltdown at Augusta, despite having already won 80+ tournies world wide, he would only win:

- 2 more PGA Tour of Australasia events
- 2 more PGA Tour events
- 0 European Tour events
- With 18 top 5 finishes in Majors up thru the 96 Masters...and then only 2 more after that.

[Tim Martin]

No one in the history of golf has proven more resilient after failure than Norman. This is going to happen. Patience.

I guess it depends how you measure "resilience". 

After his utter meltdown at Augusta, despite having already won 80+ tournies world wide, he would only win:

- 2 more PGA Tour of Australasia events
- 2 more PGA Tour events
- 0 European Tour events
- 17 top 5 finishes in Majors up thru the 96 Masters...and then only 2 more after that.

Kalen-I don’t think JK was referring to Norman’s resilience as a player. He has been pretty successful in business both inside and outside the game of golf while building an international brand. I’ve always thought his golf legacy mattered less to him than his wealth and business success. Finally the number being batted around as to his take from LIV is between $700 and $800 million.

[Michael Morandi]

I dont know if you saw during the broadcast yesterday that Feherty and the two others in the booth aired their OWGR grievances in a 60 second segment that was, for me, just hard to watch as they sounded like a trio of misinformed Trump supporters playing the victim card...it was sad.
They literally started out the segment by decrying the horribly biased media being against LIV.

- They conveniently leave out that the guy who funds the LIV Tour murdered and dismembered one of their WaPo industry colleagues so kinda natural for the rest of the industry to hold a grudge.

 
They offered that the LIV golfers are being "punished" by OWGR because they chose a personal lifestyle career move.
- They leave out that the LIV golfers all knew this before they signed on the LIV dotted line.
Then they have the gall to offer that the Majors were in jeopardy for many LIV tour members due to OWGR rankings, but that at least in the two Opens they could qualify as the PGA and DP Tours would not allow them to play in their regular events.

- They leave out the fact that THEIR events are closed to ALL golfers in the world regardless of ranking or status unless you are invited by LIV offering the audience a "same-sauce" rinse/repeat of talent without the introduction of fresh faces or guys that just got hot that week.

The Honda Classic, while perhaps a weak field, had two Monday qualifiers on the leader board with Eric Cole finishing second.
It was fun to watch.
LIV will never see this type of competitor - be it Eric Cole or first round contender, Pierceson Coody.
It's not just "Golf, but louder", it's also "Golf, but less inclusive".

[Michael Morandi]

Bel Air and I think LA Country Club

CalClub too, where it isn’t shorts weather most of the time anyway.

[Michael Morandi]

I dont know if you saw during the broadcast yesterday that Feherty and the two others in the booth aired their OWGR grievances in a 60 second segment that was, for me, just hard to watch as they sounded like a trio of misinformed Trump supporters playing the victim card...it was sad.
They literally started out the segment by decrying the horribly biased media being against LIV.

- They conveniently leave out that the guy who funds the LIV Tour murdered and dismembered one of their WaPo industry colleagues so kinda natural for the rest of the industry to hold a grudge.

 
They offered that the LIV golfers are being "punished" by OWGR because they chose a personal lifestyle career move.
- They leave out that the LIV golfers all knew this before they signed on the LIV dotted line.
Then they have the gall to offer that the Majors were in jeopardy for many LIV tour members due to OWGR rankings, but that at least in the two Opens they could qualify as the PGA and DP Tours would not allow them to play in their regular events.

- They leave out the fact that THEIR events are closed to ALL golfers in the world regardless of ranking or status unless you are invited by LIV offering the audience a "same-sauce" rinse/repeat of talent without the introduction of fresh faces or guys that just got hot that week.

The Honda Classic, while perhaps a weak field, had two Monday qualifiers on the leader board with Eric Cole finishing second.
It was fun to watch.
LIV will never see this type of competitor - be it Eric Cole or first round contender, Pierceson Coody.
It's not just "Golf, but louder", it's also "Golf, but less inclusive".

Well said

[Michael Morandi]

Anyone who would rather watch the Honda this week vs. Liv Mayakoba is fooling themselves.

Considering it got a 0.2 television rating, a lot of people fooled themselves and watched the Honda Classic, if they watched golf at all.

[JLahrman]

I guess it depends how you measure "resilience". 

After his utter meltdown at Augusta, despite having already won 80+ tournies world wide, he would only win:

- 2 more PGA Tour of Australasia events
- 2 more PGA Tour events
- 0 European Tour events
- With 18 top 5 finishes in Majors up thru the 96 Masters...and then only 2 more after that.

Much as I hate to be fair to Greg Norman...to be fair, he was 41 years old at the 1996 Masters so he might not have had a lot of wins left in him had he won The Masters that year anyway.

[Mike Bodo]

Considering it got a 0.2 television rating, a lot of people fooled themselves and watched the Honda Classic, if they watched golf at all.

The LPGA event in Thailand last weekend was the best professional golf tournament of the three. Congrats to Lilia Vu from the U.S. on her first circuit win after knocking on the door a few times the previous two years. She beat a stacked field of women's finest, including world no. 1 Lydia Ko.

[David Cronan]

No one in the history of golf has proven more resilient after failure than Norman. This is going to happen. Patience.

I guess it depends how you measure "resilience". 

After his utter meltdown at Augusta, despite having already won 80+ tournies world wide, he would only win:

- 2 more PGA Tour of Australasia events
- 2 more PGA Tour events
- 0 European Tour events
- With 18 top 5 finishes in Majors up thru the 96 Masters...and then only 2 more after that.

To be fair, after Norman's meltdown at the 96 Masters, Faldo would only win:


- 1 more PGA Tour event
- 0 European Tour events'
- 0 PGA Tour of Australasia events
- 1 Other win (World Cup Team Event with David Carter)
- 2 top 5 finishes in Majors after his Masters win


In both cases, their drop-off in performance probably has more to do with age than anything else.

[Mike Bodo]

In both cases, their drop-off in performance probably has more to do with age than anything else.

Agree, which is why so many former PGA and D.P. World Tour players in their 40's jumped ship to LIV, as they realized they could no longer comperte for titles against the young bucks at their former tours. The players benefitting the most from LIV are Garcia, Westwood, Stenson, Poulter, Oosthuizen, Schwarzel, Kaymer, Watson, Casey, Howell III, etc. because when the whole thing collapses they'll just slide right into the Champions Tour where they'll be welcomed with open arms, as if the whole LIV thing never happened.

[Tim_Cronin]

It is something of a veterans tour. You could almost see some of the host courses hosting an international senior tour down the line.

[Mike Bodo]

It is something of a veterans tour. You could almost see some of the host courses hosting an international senior tour down the line.

Agreed! The question I have is what becomes of the James Piot's, David Puig's and Eugenio Chacarra's of LIV or even the Joaquin Niemann's, Carlos Ortiz's and Mito Perreira's should the league fold? I can't see any of them be welcomed back to the PGA Tour and because none of them have exemptions earned from winning a major, wouldn't be surprised if they're required to play their way back to the PGA Tour through the Korn Ferry or D.P. World Tours.


At least Smith, Bryson, Brooks, D.J., Reed and Watson have a fail safe in place if LIV were to disappear tomorrow. A lot of other guys don't.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Ratings are in for the weekend. In my market, I had equal access to LIV and PGA and they were on at the same time:


"Estimated golf viewership from the weekend, per a source: LIV Mayakoba: Saturday 286K, Sunday 291K PGA Tour: Saturday 1.61M, Sunday 2.38M"


[/size]With a weak firld at the Honda and with all this supposed firepower in Mexico, this is laying a gigantic egg. Apparently the "18-48" market (LIV's target) made up 48K so it's still an old guy's game on TV.[/color]

[PCCraig]

Anyone who would rather watch the Honda this week vs. Liv Mayakoba is fooling themselves.

Well, let's go to a quick reality check there, Pat...;-)


It's currently 4:09 here in Chicago and here's what we have:


1. Channel 199: The Golf Channel showing the Honda Classic.
2. Channel 183: The CW showing Judge Judy now through 6 pm.


what did you say again...?..;-) Cant seem to watch LIV.

I downloaded the LIV app on my amazon fire tv...it was pretty easy, and free.


Generally speaking, I think the players and producers are "in" on how ridiculous the team aspect is and it's made it more fun, in my opinion.


It reminds me of a slightly more wacky version of the old European Tour. Love it.


The TOUR has done a nice job elevating events like last week at Riviera. But events like Honda are incredibly boring now.

[Dave Doxey]

Ratings are in for the weekend. In my market, I had equal access to LIV and PGA and they were on at the same time:


"Estimated golf viewership from the weekend, per a source: LIV Mayakoba: Saturday 286K, Sunday 291K PGA Tour: Saturday 1.61M, Sunday 2.38M"

With a weak firld at the Honda and with all this supposed firepower in Mexico, this is laying a gigantic egg. Apparently the "18-48" market (LIV's target) made up 48K so it's still an old guy's game on TV.

Misleading numbers.  Ratings measure live televised viewing, while the vast majority of LIV viewers watch on streaming apps.   Both tours have a significant number of viewers who don't watch live TV.  LIV being televised on CW is pretty poor, as the rating reflect.  Hard to understand that deal.

[Tim Martin]

Anyone who would rather watch the Honda this week vs. Liv Mayakoba is fooling themselves.

Well, let's go to a quick reality check there, Pat...;-)


It's currently 4:09 here in Chicago and here's what we have:


1. Channel 199: The Golf Channel showing the Honda Classic.
2. Channel 183: The CW showing Judge Judy now through 6 pm.


what did you say again...?..;-) Cant seem to watch LIV.

The TOUR has done a nice job elevating events like last week at Riviera. But events like Honda are incredibly boring now.

The exodus of players from the PGA Tour to LIV has obviously opened up spots for some players who would not have qualified. New blood is generally good but when I look at some of the leaderboards there is no name recognition at all. So good that the next generation of players are getting a crack but bad in that known players draw viewers.

[Stewart Abramson]

The LPGA event in Thailand last weekend was the best professional golf tournament of the three. Congrats to Lilia Vu from the U.S. on her first circuit win after knocking on the door a few times the previous two years. She beat a stacked field of women's finest, including world no. 1 Lydia Ko.

I was the walking scorer for Lilia Vu's singles match at the Curtis Cup matches at Quaker Ridge. She was an amazing shotmaker who worked the ball left, right, high and low. I thought she was the most impressive player on a very talented team. I'm surprised it took her this long to make her mark, as at least three of her Curtis Cup team mates  ( most notably Jenifer Kupcho, but also Stephenson and A Lee,) have already had  varying degrees of success on the LPGA tour.

[Stewart Abramson]

[/quote. But events like Honda are incredibly boring now.

I didn't think the Honda was boring

[Kalen Braley]

Anyone who would rather watch the Honda this week vs. Liv Mayakoba is fooling themselves.

Well, let's go to a quick reality check there, Pat...;-)

It's currently 4:09 here in Chicago and here's what we have:

1. Channel 199: The Golf Channel showing the Honda Classic.
2. Channel 183: The CW showing Judge Judy now through 6 pm.

what did you say again...?..;-) Cant seem to watch LIV.

The TOUR has done a nice job elevating events like last week at Riviera. But events like Honda are incredibly boring now.

Reality is, its been boring for years.  Between its poor spot on the schedule and difficult course with grinding conditions, most of the top names have already been skipping it for a long time.

But I think the Tour has too many events as is, so if some proverbial fat needs to be trimmed, probably for the best.

[Mike Bodo]

It is something of a veterans tour. You could almost see some of the host courses hosting an international senior tour down the line.

This was pretty much echoed by writer Dan Wolken from USA Today in the column published yesterday.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/columnist/dan-wolken/2023/02/27/liv-golf-already-past-prime-saudis-gimmicks/11360739002/


The most poignant remark from the column is this.


"And now that everyone has seen what LIV is — and what it isn’t — the danger of significant defections seems to have passed. If Mito Pereira and Thomas Pieters are the best LIV can do now, there is simply no way it can be called a rival. At best, it's a well-paid halfway house between the PGA Tour and senior events."

[Tim Martin]

[/quote. But events like Honda are incredibly boring now.

I didn't think the Honda was boring

The defection of players to LIV has opened up spots for a new generation of players on the PGA Tour. What’s at issue is that viewers are drawn in by name recognition and that is lacking as compared to pre LIV.

[John Kavanaugh]

Aren’t some choices in life so simple that you don’t need someone else to tell you why? Why does that guis opinion matter. No one needs to like the LIV for it to continue to damage the Tour.


This topic has more in common with fat shaming than frilly haired bunkers.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Ratings are in for the weekend. In my market, I had equal access to LIV and PGA and they were on at the same time:


"Estimated golf viewership from the weekend, per a source: LIV Mayakoba: Saturday 286K, Sunday 291K PGA Tour: Saturday 1.61M, Sunday 2.38M"

With a weak firld at the Honda and with all this supposed firepower in Mexico, this is laying a gigantic egg. Apparently the "18-48" market (LIV's target) made up 48K so it's still an old guy's game on TV.

Misleading numbers.  Ratings measure live televised viewing, while the vast majority of LIV viewers watch on streaming apps.   Both tours have a significant number of viewers who don't watch live TV.  LIV being televised on CW is pretty poor, as the rating reflect.  Hard to understand that deal.

Says you...;-)



I watched it on WGN, not the CW. Channel 9 right next to the PGA broadcast on channel 5. You can access WGN all over the country, too.


Plus, all the Xfinity apps and PGA apps and network TV apps all do the same thing as the LIV app. You cant cherry-pick that.


12M people in the greater Chicago area had a direct choice of what golf event to watch on both days.

[Tim_Cronin]

Actually, local WGN is no longer a superstation. Those are gone because of syndicated exclusivity rules (though you can watch local WGN in Canada). WGN America, carried on cable systems, is a different animal.


----


Meanwhile, the PGA Tour is turning the "elevated" tournaments into 70-to-78-player, no-cut fields next year, Eamon Lynch learned:


https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2023/03/01/pga-tour-approves-radical-schedule-changes-elevated-events/


Said commissioner Pogo, "We have met the enemy and they is us."