"The angles discussion has always been about scoring." In your mind... Seems a bit arrogant on your part.
No. Nearly 100% of the time, when the phrase "angles don't matter" has been uttered, debated, etc. it's been about scoring. It's been about how it affects the shot, and the likelihood of hitting it close, or hitting a "good" shot. It's BS to pretend that it hasn't been, and posts like yours there come off as a way to salvage some sort of "see, I was right, they do matter, because I'm going to change the context and pretend it was about this other thing the whole time." For example…
This site is about golf course architecture and angles DO MATTER in golf course design.
Angles in this conversation haven't been about the esthetics. They've not been about draining water properly and efficiently. They've not been about how it makes you feel. If you want to talk about design, or drainage, or how this slope blends into that slope… find a different word. The "angles" conversation has been about scoring for a decade plus. Pretend otherwise if you want, but that's all it'll be: pretend.
- Good course management says completely forget what the best angle in to the green is. Play the tee-shot that is most likely to keep you out of trouble but ideally on the fairway.
Yes.
That is a true statement. Even in firm and fast situations, I am just trying to hit the fairway (anywhere on the fairway) with my tee shot. It is - of course - the argument for 70 yard wide fairways. That approach to design gives slightly more room for angles in to the green mattering. But it can come at the expense of an element of challenge in your tee shot.
One of the reasons why angles don't matter to scoring is that the angles are often so small. On even a 40-yard wide fairway, a shot played from 5 yards from the left edge and a shot played from 5 yards from the right edge from 160 yards are coming in from angles that are less than two minutes on a clock. When you overlay the shot pattern over the endpoint… it becomes apparent that even a shot that would appear to skirt a bunker or whatnot from the one side and needing to cover it from the other isn't quite that way - both are either going to end up in it almost as often or both are going to fly it and it doesn't matter much for that reason.
The above - really very simple premise - does not mean that architects stop using angles because they can get in to everyone’s head (even if they shouldn’t) and they add to the game, even if only aesthetically.
https://x.com/iacas/status/1851954214836007254Those slides are from the "summary" section, but I went into the bullet points in more depth in the presentation itself
Ball is rolling covers the first three:
- Lower ball speed (and again, 10-handicap 50-year-olds often don't meet this threshold at all, and less so with clubs that help players get the ball airborne than 30+ years ago)
- Firm conditions
- Recovery shots
- Greenside shots
"Other" is partly the catch-all other type of stuff Craig wants to pretend the conversation has been about with the artistry of the architect to slope this shape to mirror the background mountain or whatever. It's in there because, every so often, someone tries to pull a Craig and ignore the reality of what this topic has meant for the last ten years.
"Other" also covers the rare exceptions like the 12th at ANGC (a pretty small target) where the literal angle of the green favors lefties over righties - pulls go longer, pushes go shorter. Most architects seem to think that you can get away with one of these types of designs that punish a player for simply which side of the ball they play from in a round, but more than once in a round of 18 holes might start to get you into trouble.
It also assumes that having decided to play safe that the player can still hit a shot that stays out of trouble.
No, it doesn't. Maximizing your chances of shooting a good score does not guarantee a good score. How the heck have you been reading and participating in this conversation for ten years to say something as off as that?
All you're doing is increasing the margin for error rather than eliminating it.
No shit.
I'm sure there are other caveats that could be added undermining the basic contention.
Nothing you just said "undermines the basic contention." At all.