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Adam Lawrence

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Re: Seeking Examples of Good Tree Removal Projects
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2023, 01:15:35 PM »
Gil Hanse's work at Taconic c. 2006-2009 removed thousands of trees and the results are stunning.  Improved course conditions and expansive views of the surrounding mountains.


Question for Adam Lawrence: as a proud member of Davenport Country Club, I'm curious as to your comment that Vaughn is working with you on our course.  What are you doing?


Shooting history-focused video for a production related to your centenary celebrations.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Seeking Examples of Good Tree Removal Projects
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2023, 01:34:51 PM »
I was a member at the CC of Woodmore outside DC. One winter, the super cut down about 750 trees. He thinned out the woods and removed some trees that impeded strategy. Some members never noticed. Those of us that did loved it. It allowed grass to grow even in the trees, and the fairways benefited. Not every course has to do what Oakmont did.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seeking Examples of Good Tree Removal Projects
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2023, 04:24:20 PM »
Did anyone mention the obvious work at Cal Club by Kyle Philips?


Serious wood removal in the heart of red wood tree-hugging land.
Impressive.

Joe Bausch

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Re: Seeking Examples of Good Tree Removal Projects
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2023, 07:10:59 PM »
   Beware of beautiful tree removal photos that depict great looking vistas and site lines but do not reveal how the removal negatively affected how the course played.  Some trees do provide proper challenges.


To think that maybe 10 years ago when the culling of trees started at RG I visited the course with M2 and had a great day. Afterwards, right outside the pro shop, I was expounding upon how the beginning of the cull was going well.


I believe it was some of Jim's buddies that came outside to 'greet' me and I was verbally berated for praising the work. In particular the trees removed along and behind #3 and down the driveway to the course. These members could not believe how bad this choice was. Why? Let this one wash over you:  because thousands of feet away people in cars driving along route 1 would be able to look and actually see the golf course.


I kid you not.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2023, 06:19:03 PM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seeking Examples of Good Tree Removal Projects
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2023, 09:20:35 AM »
Joe: Our memories differ. I have never been against the culling of trees. I supported all tree removal efforts that exposed more air and light to the course. These projects were mostly performed under the auspices of Jim Nagle, a talented and experienced architect.
   What I have objected to is the recent deforestation performed under the auspices of a superintendent and a member with zero input from an experienced architect. What we now have is a course with beautiful vistas and open spaces (great before and after pictures), but a course where one can literally hit a tee shot pretty much anywhere with no risk of penalty. Picture the after picture of Sleepy Hollow above, but with no trees at all. Pretty much the only trees left at RG are those that define doglegs. Yes, the before and after pictures are striking. But there is more to good golf architecture than pretty pictures. What worked at Oakmont won’t work everywhere.
   If this work were performed under the auspices of a Gil Hanse or Jim Nagle, I would defer to their expertise and experience.  However, I seriously doubt an experienced architect would have been so draconian. Indeed, rumor has it that Hanse, now hired, will be planting some trees. My objection has been to changing the architecture of a great golf course without the input of an experienced architect.
   I kid you not.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2023, 05:27:23 PM by Jim_Coleman »

Paul Rudovsky

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Re: Seeking Examples of Good Tree Removal Projects
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2023, 10:24:55 AM »
Moraine in Ohio (see Ran's write up in Courses by Country) and Quaker Ridge (NY).  I was member of QR from '75 to '00 and by '05 or so it had become claustrophobic! 


Aside form astounding benefits in terms of turf quality etc., I realized when this trend commenced that single trees standing alone can be beautiful as you can discern the branch structure...but heavily treed areas almost always subtract from the beauty of a course...those areas look like big green curtains making it difficult to see the tree structure.

Jason Topp

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Re: Seeking Examples of Good Tree Removal Projects
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2023, 12:01:06 PM »

Robin:


Another way to look at the issue is to note that significant tree removal has become nearly standard practice on golden age courses in the US.  Listed below is the current Golf Magazine list of the top 15 courses in Minnesota, 11 have embarked on major tree removal projects.  In most cases, at least half the trees have been taken out over the last 15 years and in some cases, far more than that.  Some of the courses on the list did not appear on similar lists before embarking on tree removal projects. 3 of the 4 remaining courses are newer (1990 or later) and even then may have had a decent amount, if not a transformative amount of tree removal.  The remaining course, Somerset, has had some tree removal but I am not familiar enough with it to classify it as major or minor.

1. White Bear Yacht Club (White Bear Lake) [1] - YES
2. Interlachen (Edina) - YES
3. Northland (Duluth) - YES
4. Hazeltine National (Chaska) - YES (less extensive than others but there were fewer trees to start)
5. Midland Hills (Roseville) - YES
6. Somerset (Mendota Heights) - Some (not sure of extent)
7. Minikahda Club (Minneapolis) - YES
8. Spring Hill (Wayzata) - Newer course
9. Rochester (Rochester) - YES
10. Minneapolis GC (St. Louis Park) - YES
11. Windsong Farm (Independence) - YES
12. Giant’s Ridge — Quarry (Biwabik) [P] ? Newer course
13. Town & Country (St. Paul) - YES
14. Olympic Hills (Eden Prairie)- YES
15. The Classic at Madden’s (Brainerd) [P] - Newer course, Minor at most

https://golf.com/travel/best-golf-courses-in-minnesota-2022-2023/

Tree removal is not something that needs to be sold very much here.  I hear everyday non architecture geeks extoll the value of tree removal regularly.  They have experienced its benefits.  I have observed far fewer projects of this nature in the UK, but clubs in the UK that want to get a jump on the competition would be well served to do so.

Iowa (mentioned earlier in the thread) provides an example of the costs of delay.  Davenport CC and Cedar Rapids CC got ahead of the game and are receiving national recognition.  Wakonda has not and has gone from being considered one of the very best in the state to being lost in the crowd.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2023, 12:08:59 PM by Jason Topp »

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seeking Examples of Good Tree Removal Projects
« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2023, 02:20:56 PM »
It's not a recent project but Carolina Golf Club in Charlotte, NC is a primo example of tree removal.


That was 2006-2008.  The result has been great, in my opinion, and the "tree management plan" at Carolina GC remains in effect.

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seeking Examples of Good Tree Removal Projects
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2023, 07:54:14 AM »
SSan Diego CC recently removed 430 Aleppo pine trees planted in the 50’s. Poor soul conditions and brackish well water had caused stunted growth and greatly impacted turf conditions. The removal revealed a wonderfully undulating course and did little to impact strategy since most holes are pretty straight. There is a problem on the 2 dogleg right par 5; holes 8 & 14. Long hitters now take a bee line for the green, undeterred by the 1” rough. Consulting architect Todd Eckenrode has proposed a wait and see approach to replace the strategy. It seems like the tipping point was when Tom Doak commented “what’s with all the Pine trees” on a recent visit!
« Last Edit: February 07, 2023, 08:08:33 AM by Pete Lavallee »
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

archie_struthers

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Re: Seeking Examples of Good Tree Removal Projects
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2023, 11:32:46 AM »
 8)


I love just about everything at Philly Cricket....but do miss some of the trees

Jim Sherma

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Re: Seeking Examples of Good Tree Removal Projects
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2023, 02:52:00 PM »
Any program that rids a course of pine trees is a good place to start. Can't grow both pine trees and healthy turf, have to choose one or the other.

Joe Bausch

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Re: Seeking Examples of Good Tree Removal Projects
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2023, 06:51:58 PM »
Any program that rids a course of pine trees is a good place to start. Can't grow both pine trees and healthy turf, have to choose one or the other.


Pine trees are the scourge of so many Delaware Valley golf courses.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

John Handley

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Re: Seeking Examples of Good Tree Removal Projects
« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2023, 08:16:11 PM »
Beverly in Chicago did a big tree removal program from what I understand.  I've only played it afterwards and it was awesome. 
2025 Line Up: Cal Club, Spanish Oaks GC, Luling, Tree Farm, Old Barnwell, Moortown, Alwoodley, Ganton, Woodhall Spa, Brancaster, Hunstanton, Sherwood Forest, Hollinwell....so far.

John Kirk

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Re: Seeking Examples of Good Tree Removal Projects
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2023, 08:31:31 PM »
Here in Portland, the Waverley CC renoration (trying this portmanteau instead of the usual "restovation") included the removal of a number of trees and the widening of fairways.  Once again, an excellent rejuvenation by Gil Hanse.