Greg Norman's Vision

[Paul Rudovsky]

I am sure that there are a whole bunch of GCA'ers who are less than enthralled with Greg Norman.


I would point out however that Norman has shown some incredible forward vision regarding the game.  Two examples...(1) his idea of a "World Tour first proposed in 1994 or so led to the World Golf Championship events which started in 1999.   And (2) he was one of the early one's pushing golf development in Vietnam...and that country had 86 courses open as of 2021 according to the R&A and another 20 under development of announced going forward from 2021

[Mike_Clayton]

Peter Thomson was writing about a world tour before Greg Norman hit his first shot.
And he was walking the walk by playing all around then world because he understood the players needed more jobs than just the ones on the American Tour.
One year he skipped The Masters to play the Indian Open.

[Sean_A]

Peter Thomson was writing about a world tour before Greg Norman hit his first shot.
And he was walking the walk by playing all around then world because he understood the players needed more jobs than just the ones on the American Tour.
One year he skipped The Masters to play the Indian Open.

Does Thomson's playing choices and world tour advocacy somehow lesson Norman's? Norman had a large microphone and used it.

Ciao

[Mike Sweeney]

Peter Thomson was writing about a world tour before Greg Norman hit his first shot.
And he was walking the walk by playing all around then world because he understood the players needed more jobs than just the ones on the American Tour.
One year he skipped The Masters to play the Indian Open.

Does Thomson's playing choices and world tour advocacy somehow lesson Norman's? Norman had a large microphone and used it.

Ciao

Sean,


I met Peter Thompson once at Winged Foot, briefly. Just a wonderful guy who obviously had amazing golf skills - and now I understand - golf visionary too. I am thankful for Mike Clayton's perspective from "Down Under". Revolutions start small and build. IMO - golf should move a Major to Asia, and play it in Oz on a week in February. Obviously the PGA of America has no interest in that so...


What goes on beyond the 4 majors is just background TV for me in the winter months.


HNY

[Niall C]

I also had the pleasure of meeting Peter Thomson, back when I had aspirations of becoming a GCA and was with a group of other wannabees. I would describe him as being an old fashioned gentlemen who was kind enough to give us his time and the benefit of his wisdom. In truth I can't recall too much of the conversation other than his parting shot which was that instead of becoming GCA's that we should think of becoming shapers.


With regards Norman, I've never had the pleasure of meeting him as such but pretty sure I have his autograph somewhere. He always struck me as being fairly plainspoken and willing to pursue his goals. Nothing wrong with that unless I suppose you have different views. What does strike me however is that a lot of his critics come from his homeland which is a similar scenario to Faldo. Tall poppy syndrome perhaps ?


Niall

[Rob Marshall]

Greg comes across to me as a guy trying to divert attention from his failures by telling you about all his other accomplishments. His inability to close in big tournaments has to eat away at him but he never seems to show it. He wears his hatred for the PGA tour on his sleeve. No doubt about it.

[Mike_Young]

My experience, even in corporate America(especially in corporate America) is:  nice hair, small waist, tall and good hair goes a long way in making one more intelligent and more likely CEO material.
AND  charlie does a great short interview with Norman here...watch...  https://www.golfchannel.com/video/greg-norman-joins-charlie-rymer-bunker

[Niall C]

Greg comes across to me as a guy trying to divert attention from his failures by telling you about all his other accomplishments. His inability to close in big tournaments has to eat away at him but he never seems to show it. He wears his hatred for the PGA tour on his sleeve. No doubt about it.

In fairness he has accomplished an awful lot and I also don't know too many other successful people who would focus on their failures. Can you imagine Tiger being interviewed and saying "let's not talk about my 15 majors, lets chat about the 2009 PGA" or Rory being keen to discuss last years Open ? Everyone wants to control the narrative and I doubt Norman is any different.


Niall

[Steve Lang]

   I had the pleasure to watch Norman play at the Memorial a couple times, and could care less that he didn't win a few more major tournaments, hey he had 8 seconds, he should get credit for that..  the sound and ball flight off his clubs were very very impressive and memorable, especially the low teed driver... ball striking goes a long way but isn't everything.


The guy has built up a tremendous collection of businesses based upon his legacy, so if that's not vision, and action, I don't know what is.. The LIV role was perfect for him and the current fight... it'll be better than a major!

[Ken Moum]

Let's not be too congratulatory here. The WGC events were a giant failure, the players on the PGA Tour simply weren't interested in traveling all over the place, viewers in the USA (where the $$$ are) weren't interested in watching golf 6,7,8 hours off the "normal" schedule, so the WGC is essentially dead.


I never realized how much animosity there was/is among people outside the US for the way the PGA Tour has dominated the professional golf world, but I guess it makes sense. OTOH, do you really think the players and the tour brass they hired should have spent millions of dollars propping up professional golf in other countries?


Back in the 90s Norman wanted to take away the top 50-60 players from the PGA Tour to have his private, closed-entry, tour with lots of money to be made.  It would have ended the PGA Tour.


Now he's got it, and if it's successful it will end the PGA Tour. 


Personally, I don't care all that much because I have given up on professional golf except for the majors.  And I barely watch them anymore.  The pace of play and the style of golf outside of links golf is simply unwatchable for me.


But back to the "world tour" idea, how many LIV events are going to be in the US in the first two seasons.

[Thomas Dai]

Personally, I don't care all that much because I have given up on professional golf except for the majors.  And I barely watch them anymore.  The pace of play and the style of golf outside of links golf is simply unwatchable for me.

I’d go along with this although I will add that I will watch the recently scheduled men-women one-tournament events and hope to see more, especially if they are held on interesting courses.
As to ‘Normans great vision’ I don’t miss watching any LIV players, well maybe other than being able to occasionally view the poetry in motion swing of Louis Oosthuizen.
Atb


PS - I recall back in the early 1970’s watching Peter Thomson playing on the Asian Tour.

[Ronald Montesano]

Greg Norman was slated to build the second course at Grand Niagara, between Fort Erie and Niagara Falls, in Ontario. The 2008 crash dropped the gate on that project. I suspect that, every time Greg drives the QEW past the Grand Niagara exit and considers that Rees Jones (first course) succeeded where he did not, he regards it as his greatest failure.

[Mike_Clayton]

Peter Thomson was writing about a world tour before Greg Norman hit his first shot.
And he was walking the walk by playing all around then world because he understood the players needed more jobs than just the ones on the American Tour.
One year he skipped The Masters to play the Indian Open.

Does Thomson's playing choices and world tour advocacy somehow lesson Norman's? Norman had a large microphone and used it.

Ciao

Not at all - but people thinking the world tour was Greg's idea are wrong.
And Greg's two versions of it were about blowing up the PGA Tour - not something Peter Thomson ever advocated.
Greg's was never about creating more jobs for players - unless you're counting players who didn't need another job.


None of which is surprising. They were much different people who played the game much differently.

[Tim Martin]

Greg Norman was slated to build the second course at Grand Niagara, between Fort Erie and Niagara Falls, in Ontario. The 2008 crash dropped the gate on that project. I suspect that, every time Greg drives the QEW past the Grand Niagara exit and considers that Rees Jones (first course) succeeded where he did not, he regards it as his greatest failure.

Ron-If I’m a bettor I would say he hasn’t returned to the area since the project went bust. His only Canadian course as far as I know is Wyndance which was built in 2007.

[Sean_A]

Let's not be too congratulatory here. The WGC events were a giant failure, the players on the PGA Tour simply weren't interested in traveling all over the place, viewers in the USA (where the $$$ are) weren't interested in watching golf 6,7,8 hours off the "normal" schedule, so the WGC is essentially dead.


I never realized how much animosity there was/is among people outside the US for the way the PGA Tour has dominated the professional golf world, but I guess it makes sense. OTOH, do you really think the players and the tour brass they hired should have spent millions of dollars propping up professional golf in other countries?


Back in the 90s Norman wanted to take away the top 50-60 players from the PGA Tour to have his private, closed-entry, tour with lots of money to be made.  It would have ended the PGA Tour.


Now he's got it, and if it's successful it will end the PGA Tour. 


Personally, I don't care all that much because I have given up on professional golf except for the majors.  And I barely watch them anymore.  The pace of play and the style of golf outside of links golf is simply unwatchable for me.


But back to the "world tour" idea, how many LIV events are going to be in the US in the first two seasons.

WCG events were close to a world tour, nor is LIV..at least not the way I envision it. My idea of a world tour is properly reviving the many national opens which have wallowed at the expense of a 2nd and third tour USPGA events. It doesn't even have to be all the national opens every year. But a combo using the following opens


Canada
Argentina
New Zealand
Australia
South Africa
France
Netherlands
Germany
Spain
Scotland
Ireland
England


and a few more has to be better than watching at least half the USPGA tour events. The USTour isn't overly interested in providing a good product as much as lining their pockets. That much is clearly obvious. When you get right down to it, how many USTour events are worth watching? I stopped watching as soon as it cost money using SKY to tune in back in 1998. I never got into the Euro Tour either. I see the odd shot ouside of the Masters, Open and Ryder Cup, but a small handful of events is enough given the time investment.


Ciao

[Tim Leahy]

Now he's got it, and if it's successful it will end the PGA Tour. 

LOL
The same LIV tour that can't get on a national TV network while Cornhole and Chasetag have coverage will end the PGA Tour.

[John Kavanaugh]

https://www.reviewgeek.com/140964/youtubes-nfl-sunday-ticket-could-let-you-watch-just-your-favorite-team/amp/


YouTube might be serious.

[Craig Sweet]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2023/jan/02/liv-golf-risks-becoming-an-irrelevance-in-growing-saudi-sportswashing-portfolio

[Ken Moum]

WCG events were close to a world tour, nor is LIV..at least not the way I envision it. My idea of a world tour is properly reviving the many national opens which have wallowed at the expense of a 2nd and third tour USPGA events. It doesn't even have to be all the national opens every year. But a combo using the following opens


Canada
Argentina
New Zealand
Australia
South Africa
France
Netherlands
Germany
Spain
Scotland
Ireland
England


and a few more has to be better than watching at least half the USPGA tour events. The USTour isn't overly interested in providing a good product as much as lining their pockets. That much is clearly obvious. When you get right down to it, how many USTour events are worth watching? I stopped watching as soon as it cost money using SKY to tune in back in 1998. I never got into the Euro Tour either. I see the odd shot ouside of the Masters, Open and Ryder Cup, but a small handful of events is enough given the time investment.


Ciao

You are correct. I didn't mention that neither WGC or LIV are "World Tours."


You also give a good framework for what would actually be such an animal. If it weren't for the problem of time zone differences it would probably be a good thing. In fact, before the Internet, you might have been able to pull off tape-delayed broadcasting but that horse has left the barn.  I can't even watch sports events I recorded myself without peeking to see what the outcome was.


But we all know where the money is for playing players and it's not in any of the countries you list, or there'd already be tour that goes to those places. Wait, there is one, and it had to sell 40% of European Tour Productions to the PGA Tour last year.


The PGA Tour might be unwatchable to you and me, but it had revenues in the $1.5 BILLION range in 2021.


FWIW, it appears that the Premier League does at least four times that, NBA about seven times, and NFL about 10 times.

[Ken Moum]

Now he's got it, and if it's successful it will end the PGA Tour. 

LOL
The same LIV tour that can't get on a national TV network while Cornhole and Chasetag have coverage will end the PGA Tour.

You seem to have missed the three words I just bolded.


BTW, I agree with you, it isn't going to end the tour...unless it's successful.  And I have little confidence that it will be successful.

[V_Halyard]

I am sure that there are a whole bunch of GCA'ers who are less than enthralled with Greg Norman.


I would point out however that Norman has shown some incredible forward vision regarding the game.  Two examples...(1) his idea of a "World Tour first proposed in 1994 or so led to the World Golf Championship events which started in 1999.   And (2) he was one of the early one's pushing golf development in Vietnam...and that country had 86 courses open as of 2021 according to the R&A and another 20 under development of announced going forward from 2021

He has definitely been a golf business juggernaut. I would pose that the issue is how he floats the bulldozer blade...
(Yeah, I got 'dozer jokes...)

[Kalen Braley]

I am sure that there are a whole bunch of GCA'ers who are less than enthralled with Greg Norman.


I would point out however that Norman has shown some incredible forward vision regarding the game.  Two examples...(1) his idea of a "World Tour first proposed in 1994 or so led to the World Golf Championship events which started in 1999.   And (2) he was one of the early one's pushing golf development in Vietnam...and that country had 86 courses open as of 2021 according to the R&A and another 20 under development of announced going forward from 2021

He has definitely been a golf business juggernaut. I would pose that the issue is how he floats the bulldozer blade...
(Yeah, I got 'dozer jokes...)

Vhal,

I don't think anyone doubts he's been a juggernaut in the golf biz, but it doesn't necessarily take vision to get there.  You just need to be popular and/or rich enough to have a loud enough megaphone to move the needle.

But given his prowess in basically every other aspect of his businesses, I tend to look to Occam's Blade to explain why he'd put it all to the side to get involved with LIV's dubious scheme...and for me that screams decades old scores to settle with the PGATour

[Rob Marshall]

Interesting that there have been no new announcements of anyone joining LIV..........

[John Kavanaugh]

The wives love the Hawaii swing. Even the Saudi’s get that.