[Peter Bowman]

If one was to dive into golf course architecture as a 2nd dream career 8 to 9 years from now, how would you advise them to pursue it systematically?I currently work one of my 2 dreams careers I had as a teenager doing dentistry.  The other dream career was and still is to be a golf course acrchitect. 
I had the privilege to work with my dad who, as a GC superintendent, oversaw the construction and maintenance of a half dozen new golf courses built in the 80s and 90s.  I once had the opportunity to meet Gene Sarazen, Cathy Whitworth and Jack Nicklaus at the opening ceremony of Diablo Grande (now defunct) and to even have a short conversation with the Golden Bear during his design of one of the Diablo Grande courses.My affiliation with Hooper Golf Course has also afforded me the privilege to meet seasoned GCAs and many up-and-coming GCAs in the last couple years, and golf raters and writers as well.
I'm 41 now, and by 50 it's quite reasonable that I'll be able shift careers into the world of golf course architecture.  Money will be saved up, kids will be graduated high school by then. More Freedom of Time and Purpose to pursue new dreams (and hopefully a wife supportive of the endeavor).
What suggestions do those in the GCA field have for a naively aspiring one such as myself?My plans are to study numerous texts on GC architecture, design concepts, routing, etc, for the first couple years.  What resources have you found great for these topics?Where do I learn about construction, irrigation, and all that jazz, including **cough* cough** permitting?Of course spending time on golf club atlas will go a long way too
Certainly golf travel will support the education process in the meantime.As I get closer to 50 I hope to work as an associate (even for peanuts) for a successful and established GCA on a basis suited to my availability, and hopefully it becomes something I can do for blocks at a  time, while still doing some dentistry. 
I realize it's not a simple task.  But knowing I found success despite the fact I was the last one accepted into the only dental school that would consider me, I believe in miracles, so to speak.

[Tom_Doak]

First, a question:  would you suggest to someone else that they switch careers at your age to become a dentist?


I will offer my advice here, the same as I give to anyone thinking of switching careers at your age to become a golf course architect.


Don't.


I say this on behalf of all of the young people who have been pursuing a career in the business for the past 10-20 years.  It's a hard way to make a living, and it takes a long time to establish a reputation.  [As Bill Coore aptly put it, I was an "overnight success" when I built Pacific Dunes at the age of 40 . . . twenty years after he and I met, and I had already started pursuing that dream.]


I'm a big believer in the free market and everyone having a chance.  If you're really passionate, you likely won't be talked out of it.  But you are probably overestimating the demand for designers, and you are surely underestimating the army of young men and women who have a five- to fifteen-year head start on you.

[John Kavanaugh]

Once you complete your first successful career you’ll find more satisfaction failing at anything than doing nothing.

[Ira Fishman]

Once you complete your first successful career you’ll find more satisfaction failing at anything than doing nothing.

JK,


You have said many wise things here. This goes to the top of the list. I understand Tom’s point, but if I had not tried several careers despite the odds, my life would be far less fulfilled.


Wallace Stevens is a rarity, but not a Unicorn.


A very happy and healthy New Year to all.


Ira

[Peter Bowman]

First, a question:  would you suggest to someone else that they switch careers at your age to become a dentist?


I will offer my advice here, the same as I give to anyone thinking of switching careers at your age to become a golf course architect.


Don't.


I say this on behalf of all of the young people who have been pursuing a career in the business for the past 10-20 years.  It's a hard way to make a living, and it takes a long time to establish a reputation.  [As Bill Coore aptly put it, I was an "overnight success" when I built Pacific Dunes at the age of 40 . . . twenty years after he and I met, and I had already started pursuing that dream.]


I'm a big believer in the free market and everyone having a chance.  If you're really passionate, you likely won't be talked out of it.  But you are probably overestimating the demand for designers, and you are surely underestimating the army of young men and women who have a five- to fifteen-year head start on you.

I thought you might say that, Tom.  I appreciate your reply too.

Would I encourage someone at 41 to go to college and dental school and rack up $500,000 in debt to become a dentist by 50 if they were considering it?  Maybe.  
If they've done their due diligence into the realities of the job rather than the perceptions of the job) then yes, if they've considered the following:Are they clear they have no intention or desire of retiring for 25 years or more?How long will their debt-to-income ratio take to invert?
Have they made conservative estimates on their career P&L's and debt repayments. 
Have they shadowed successful AND struggling dentists to see what they do differently?
Do they understand not all dentist become wealthy, or and most don't even enjoy their job. Have they witnessed the differences?
Do they understand many dentists fail because they can't handle the management and social requirements and headaches; and therefore about only 30% truly enjoy their career and only 10% truly kick ass at it?  
Have they reverse engineered where they'll practice based on demographic needs for their service?
If they understand all this, and a TON more due diligence realities, and still want to pursue tooth carpentry, then yes.  

John Kavanaugh's quote "Once you complete your first successful career you’ll find more satisfaction failing at anything than doing nothing"  describes my feelings perfectly.  I'd be beyond naive to think I can reach the a similar level of success in a different career just because I did it in one.  I'm already experiencing the differences via Hooper, and my contributions to it are currently small.
  
I'd rather know I couldn't make it work rather than wonder if I could have if I tried.  That said, I have no intention of joining the golf design world if my income and lifestyle depended on it. I thoroughly enjoy dentistry and age 50 isn't a point where I hope to "hang up the handpiece", but it'll be a time when I can explore curiosities without depending on my own dental productivity in my office. 

When the time comes, I believe I'll be willing to get my hands dirty and take on the more inelegant tasks of the job. If the crappy parts are manageable or even enjoyable, then continue on I shall.

[Don Mahaffey]

Peter,
I think it’s more a question of: do you want to DO something, or BE something?
If you want to build and create golf courses, there are projects all across the world where you could probably join in on the fun and start tomorrow.  That’s the true “school of hard knocks”.


But if you want to BE a golf architect, you can start by calling yourself one and see how far that gets you.

[Ian Andrew]

Peter,

If you aren't doing this for the income, jump right in and see where you end up.
Have fun. The people who build golf are wonderful and helpful. The education will be awesome.
The hours are long and working conditions can be tough some times.
But, if you don't like shovels and rakes, don't bother.

If you're married, get a good lawyer for your upcoming divorce.
It's not a great business for married people unless the significant other understands the commitment.
It gets better when you are an architect, but for most, that's after a decade or more in the field.

Pretty much everyone starts on a construction site now. You won't be an associate.
If you're going to become an architect, you will have to be able to build the work yourself.
It's part practicality and part credibility.

Most finally break away and build their first few jobs for smaller clients.
It may be just tees and a bunker or two. You survive before you thrive.

I think it was Mike Young who said, it doesn't matter what you can create if you can't find work.
You have to be good at finding projects and convincing people to build your ideas.

Most future architects still build the work of others periodically till they establish themselves.
So Don asked the best question....

But if you want to BE a golf architect, you can start by calling yourself one and see how far that gets you.

If you want to BE an architect, waiting is fruitless, because it takes far too long to establish yourself.
You have to make the entire journey, pay your dues like everyone else, there are no short cuts.
Remember, there are many others are on the same path as you and not everyone even become architect.

So this last thing is really important too ... it's the reality check
We don't always get to do "exactly" what we hoped to do.
I'm 35 years in (I'm arguably successful?), but I've never built a golf course on a raw site under my own name.
That's most people's goal at the outset. That will be much more for future architects.
Golf has massive future headwinds with land costs, permitting, water, etc.

So what is the goal, to have some fun? Be the next Tom Doak?
That answer matters. So does the level of commitment.

[Kalen Braley]

The prevailing wisdom so far seems to indicate you'd likely have more luck hitting the range and getting your champions tour card at 50 over that.   Unless you just want to be known as one, which should be super easy, hang out a shingle and get some business cards to pass around...

[John Kavanaugh]

Is it safe?

[Thomas Dai]

A couple of years ago I started a thread herein entitled something like ‘The most difficult aspects of being a golf course architect’. The responses from those in the business themselves were both insightful and enlightening. Inside the bubble might not be what it seems from outside.
Atb

[John Kavanaugh]

The dude spent a half million dollars so he could stick his fingers in your mouth at $200 a pop. If he wants to stick a few stakes in the ground for giggles I wouldn’t bet against him.

[Ben Sims]

In September of 2011 I took ten days and spent time on Don’s crew at Dismal River Red for Tom. I had a blast and enjoyed myself and felt like I fit in. I pursued a turf degree, went a couple trade shows, and established relationships. A few years later in 2017 I was 35 years old, leaving the Air Force, and we had a young kid with another on the way. My experience level and the hiring environment in those days dictated I could kind of pick whatever airline I wanted. Or I could leave the AF, fight tooth and nail against younger hungrier people and maybe by the age of 55 I’d be experienced and trusted enough to be lead associate. And that’s in the rare and unlikely case (monster emphasis) I had the talent and knowledge to be one half as good as required.


I’m sure the path would have been rewarding. But…I’m not stupid to think it would’ve been easy or lucrative.

[John Kavanaugh]

I remember back when I thought Zac Blair needed to step away from his Singer and hit the range. Now it’s us sitting on pins and needles as he cuts ribbons and ties bows.

[archie_struthers]

 


Some great answers from the tree house. Tom channels Harvey Penick's son advising a scratch golfer with money who wanted to play the Senior tour.


This being said , lots of guys here who would encourage you to follow a passion and JAKA gives a some great advice.   Mark Fine seems to be doing pretty well and he came to the game late , or at least I think so. I had to buy my own place to give it a try LOL
But it sure is fun if you love the game.


It is work though if you want to do it well , lots of work

[Jeff_Brauer]

Peter,


Since I lived the dream, I almost never tell someone not to go for what they want in life.  Someone long ago told me that the first test of whether you have what it takes to become a gca is to be able to avoid or resist all the people who tell you it is a bad idea.  (Which will be just about everybody if you hang with people like I knew (fam, friends, college professors, etc.) It also helps if you are young enough to not know all the things that can go wrong.  (I walked into my boss's office on my 29th birthday, quit, and decided to start my firm in TX where I knew absolutely no one, nor had any prospects.....my mantra was "what could possibly go wrong." It probably was just dumb luck, together with my stubborn streak, that allowed me to feed my family for 37 years.  So, either complete ignorance or a plausible back up plan need to be in place, LOL>




And, Ian is right that it helps to be in a very practical situation (i.e., be very rich, or at least have a working wife who understands and is bringing in money, no or grown kids, but it sounds like you have some of that going for you.)  Ditto, Ben, as I always put new hires on a 3-6 month "probation period" to evaluate their suitability for the biz.  Honestly, I could tell if a new hire really had design sense within weeks, not months.  Short version, while desire is key, you must have some innate talent for it to stick (at lesat past the first recession you happen to hit.) 


From my somewhat dinosaur-ish perspective, I say sure, read all the available gca books, but the real training you will need is in the practical, not theoretical, perspective.  Any designer who hires you won't feel they need much design advice for the first few years or so.  So, you would need a benevolent boss who understood where you were headed (and those do exist) and be willing to put up with you as you learn.  Like most other things, it's a people biz, and if you hang around the kind of people who can help you, you have a chance.


Good luck, and if you prefer a longer conversation on my perspective, message me here and maybe we can talk further.

[Ian Andrew]

Peter,

If it's your passion and you're willing to do what it takes, go for it. My only aim is to help you understand what that decision is likely to mean.

When the economy is good, we work a lot. When it’s not, it can be very challenging (unless you’re one of the “Fab Four” whose clients are recession proof). In 2008, we had a market crash, while that year finished up fine, starting in November I did not bill a single dollar till July 2009. At that time, I had around 30 renovation clients, which would be considered a stable business. Every single construction project in 2009 got cancelled. Every early season planning trip was canceled. The new build I thought was already approved and going that fall with Mike Weir got cancelled (unfortunately never to return). The real estate side collapsed which ended the few new Canadian courses that might have happened for me then. The renovation side collapsed due to financial concerns and declining private memberships. That only finally fully recovered with Covid in many areas of Canada!

As a side note: the emotional scar of that "approved and funded" project going away is still there today. That was the opportunity that I had worked towards and it was on a great site. It was my chance to show what I'm capable of.

If you’re in this business, you need to be able to sleep at night each time this happens. I searched for work, but spent most of my time renovating our house because I had the skill and the time. But around late June I was running out of money and wondering if I had been an optimistic fool. Things came back slowly, but it was a tough 18 months. And I was 20+ years into the business.

When I went out on my own, I had a backstop. My wife worked in education. If she didn’t, we would have struggled to keep the house through the first five years of the new business. If you’re going to jump in, you need to be able to deal with what happens if the work dries up. I'm assuming (for you) the kids are gone, education is paid for and the mortgage is done too.

[Kyle Harris]

There is a massive amount of talent out there working hard.

You'll succeed if you have something to contribute that they don't.

I look at all the talent around, many of whom have become friends and close ones at that, and wonder what it would take to contribute something. Then I realize someone has to make them look as good as they are in ten years.

[Mike_Young]

Peter,IMHO, unless one is a name tour player who calls himself an architect, then there really is no entry except thru the school of hard knocks or being a TFB. 
When I was trying to get started it was a flawed profession in that the practitioners were really in the development business more than the golf design business and most all of the big projects were being built in order to sell home lots.  This process often required large clubhouses also.  Landscaping talents, cartpath routings, tree plantings often were more critical than the actual golf itself.  The "edges" of the golf experience were more critical than the actual course.  AND many of the routings were done by the landplanner in order to accept the drainage from the road systems and overall development systems.  I recall attending a conference where 30 minutes was taken explaining bunker placement for cart paths instead of strategy for the golf course itself.  All of the above made golf unaffordable.
BUT Kyle hits on it in his comments above.  (Kyle does have a white belt)  There is not enough work going on right now for the younger guys to gain routing experience and IMHO the core to the golden age designs was the routings in most cases.  The young guys doing design/build today are so much better than the "rifle rack dozer"shapers of the late 80's and 90's". Honestly, I'm not sure you can catch them. The difference maker is going to be the ones with routing experience... 
And so...my advice to you would be to find myself some investors, including yourself, and design/build your own.  If it's good then you will get another.  And if it sucks, sell it.

[Tom_Doak]

In 2008, we had a market crash, while that year finished up fine, starting in November I did not bill a single dollar till July 2009. At that time, I had around 30 renovation clients, which would be considered a stable business. Every single construction project in 2009 got cancelled. Every early season planning trip was canceled. The new build I thought was already approved and going that fall with Mike Weir got cancelled (unfortunately never to return). The real estate side collapsed which ended the few new Canadian courses that might have happened for me then. The renovation side collapsed due to financial concerns and declining private memberships.

As Ian says, EVEN IF YOU'RE REALLY GIFTED AT THIS, timing is everything.


Those who are my age managed to hit a good window.  We got out of school just after the recession of the late 70s, or we wouldn't have found construction crews to get started on, and we managed to do our apprenticeship and establish ourselves before 2008, when anyone who wasn't well established bit the dust.


Some of my first interns managed to become established before then; those who didn't, and were smart, opted for families and other jobs, rather than hanging on by their fingernails.  Honestly, three of the very best people I've trained were in that group, and don't be surprised if you have to compete with them, too, 10-15 years down the road.


I was extremely lucky because I managed to attract design jobs on my own when very young, so I hadn't just had my big break before 2008, but established myself as a leading name by then.  The payoff for that is just now, at the end of the recession, when there is a lot less competition for the big-name jobs.


In that vein, I think Ian also offered the best advice in his earlier post.  If you ever want to get anywhere in this business, you should be in it RIGHT NOW, when things are booming and there are opportunities available and the people you could learn from are all spread thin.  That's when you get to jump on a piece of equipment and learn how to build something, instead of holding a rake and watching someone better do it . . . or when you get to work on routings, while your boss is too busy making site visits. 


Making a plan to do it several years from now is the sort of thing God laughs at.  By then, you will have so much experienced competition it will make your head spin.


P.S.  I just read Mike Young's advice, and his bit at the end is great advice, too, for those who can afford it.  That's really how Zac Blair got to do his project -- he got the money together so that he could call the shots, and then got help for the parts he didn't know how to do yet, while learning on the job.  That's also how Pete Dye got started.  And Mark Parsinen, though some don't think of him as a designer.  In the end, if you want to DO something, the easiest way is to make it happen for yourself.  Just be sure to give proper credit to those who help you with the hard parts.

[John Kavanaugh]

Writing a book is always a great path to becoming a recognized expert. I’d recommend starting a diary now taking notes on the steps and stumbles along the way. Start with examples of tooth formations that translate to golf. Toss in a few x-rays to connect the dots and you are on your way.


Retainers to Redans

[Peter Bowman]

I love all the responses everyone has given so far.  A lot of advice I expected and a lot of it unexpected and I appreciate that none of it minces words.  I hoping I respond to most posts when I can
As a kid I wanted to BE a dentist before I know what it takes to DO the job.  I'm fortunate I enjoy genuinely the DOing of dentistry and the business aspects, because 60% or more don't enjoy it and/or they plain suck as it.  So yes, I still think I want to BE a GCA, and I want to learn what it takes to DO it too.  Fortunately in the GCA field I suspect I can get a taste of doing the job without the significant financial and time risk required to enter dentistry.  If doing the job still inspires me, then it makes sense to continue forward with the investment of time doing, learning, making connections, etc.

Once Hooper GC can afford the costs of bunker renovations (and if I can convince my fellow Greens Committee members it's worth the expense), I intend to be in the trenches of my own course, learning the process on paper and by shovel. I hope the hired architect is amenable to that.  This is about as close as I can get to learning hands-on experience NOW, as Tom suggested.

I've also considered the possibility of doing it and owning it myself, like Mike Young advised.  I know he's done exactly that.  There are some areas in Walpole NH where I live that show potential for some interesting golf.  Too bad the rural population demographics don't support it without a business plan like the Keisers are known for.  And I certainly don't want to build a golf course nearby at the expense of Hooper's own survival.
When someone says "don't" or or suggests an idea of mine won't work, it can pathologically motivate me to prove myself.  Kudos to my wife for being a great motivator of mine, lol
I hope this conversation continues because it's been enlightening and ....motivating

[Peter Bowman]

If you're married, get a good lawyer for your upcoming divorce.
It's not a great business for married people unless the significant other understands the commitment.
It gets better when you are an architect, but for most, that's after a decade or more in the field.This always appeared to be a very real potential issue, and if a chance to make it in the GCA world meant certain divorce, I'd pass.  I enojoy my wife and my marriage to her more than the dream


Most finally break away and build their first few jobs for smaller clients.
It may be just tees and a bunker or two. You survive before you thrive.I'm hoping to make Hooper my vehicle for that entry into a smaller job.  I struggle with a Green Committee that does not want to take much action into restoring the original greens dimensions, rehabbing the bunkers, and creating new ways to experience and play Hooper without changing an elements of its design.

I think it was Mike Young who said, it doesn't matter what you can create if you can't find work.
You have to be good at finding projects and convincing people to build your ideas.

Most future architects still build the work of others periodically till they establish themselves.
So Don asked the best question....

But if you want to BE a golf architect, you can start by calling yourself one and see how far that gets you.

If you want to BE an architect, waiting is fruitless, because it takes far too long to establish yourself. Hence why I want to begin my due diligence and learning processes now
You have to make the entire journey, pay your dues like everyone else, there are no short cuts.
Remember, there are many others are on the same path as you and not everyone even become architect.

So this last thing is really important too ... it's the reality check
We don't always get to do "exactly" what we hoped to do.
I'm 35 years in (I'm arguably successful?), but I've never built a golf course on a raw site under my own name.
That's most people's goal at the outset. That will be much more for future architects.
Golf has massive future headwinds with land costs, permitting, water, etc.

So what is the goal, to have some fun? Be the next Tom Doak? In a perfect world, both. But just as I originally thought I'd be happy being a basic dentist (and I was), becoming arguably the "Tom Doak of dentists" (that's self-proclaimed) in my area has been fun too.  And I did it by seizing opportunities, expanding my skill sets, and offering consumers (patient base) what the competition could not offer and when they wanted it.To be honest, my guts tells me I have something I can contribute to the golf design world and to the golfers, and one day i hope to deliver something of value

[Jeff_Brauer]

A lot of the above hits home with me.  As to TD's comment, I just saw a motivational speaker whose opening statement was, "Successful people ask, "If not now, then when?"  I agree that you really shouldn't have an 8 year plan, or at least that it is less likely to be followed through on.  If that is based on the least amount of sacrifice......well, you don't achieve much without sacrificing something.


TD is also right in that guys my age have to look in the mirror and realize much of our good luck came as a result of the times.  That said, Perry Maxwell and others started in worse economic times and managed to survive, if not prosper.  For that matter, coming out of college, I was lucky to even get a job in the field.  I had bugged Killian and Nugent so much from the age of 12, they felt they had to hire me.  In 1977, the profession was reeling from the politics of 1974 Watergate, oil prices being high, etc., not too dissimilar from right now.


On the downside of memories, I was struck by the fact that my first official task for them was to walk down the street and clear out their savings account so the staff could get paid.  I only missed paying my staff one paycheck (it took an extra day for a client's check to clear so they couldn't cash the checks until the next week, as payday was Friday.....funny, but with some young single guys, I actually moved payday to Mondays after one of them blew his entire check on a Friday night bender and I thought it would help them be a bit more responsible with their money, LOL.)


For most gca's it really is a week to week, hand to mouth existence for much of the time.  And the biz is usually a pendulum between feast and famine.  As someone said, you have to learn early to deal with disappointment.  I have worked with some not nominally in the biz and they have really experienced the highs and lows of spending hours and thousands on sales presentations and learning that you didn't get the job.  Having no memory also helps in this biz.


All of which I am glad I wasn't really aware of when I made my life decisions on getting and staying in the biz.  I guess it helps to have a generally positive outlook on life.....or being totally clueless....I was probably a case of the latter more than the former.

[Peter Bowman]

A couple of years ago I started a thread herein entitled something like ‘The most difficult aspects of being a golf course architect’. The responses from those in the business themselves were both insightful and enlightening. Inside the bubble might not be what it seems from outside.
Atb

I hope I find that thread.Similarly in the dental world there are lots of threads discussing how challenging or miserable it is for many

[Peter Bowman]

All of which I am glad I wasn't really aware of when I made my life decisions on getting and staying in the biz.  I guess it helps to have a generally positive outlook on life.....or being totally clueless....I was probably a case of the latter more than the former.

Being clueless seems to be one of my strong suits that, like you, has been an asset on the path to success.  Yes, I'm happy to hear more of your perspective in PMs, Jeff.  And thank you.

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