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GeoffreyC

The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« on: December 02, 2003, 01:41:51 PM »
The Travesty of Yale – Hole 7

The seventh hole at Yale is another excellent short par 4 with one of my favorite greens on the course.  The hole was literally created by dynamiting a huge rocky hillside leaving a natural greensite up on top of the hill. By doing this, Raynor solved a routing problem that allowed using the fantastic land on which the 8th hole sits. The green itself has the most back to front pitch of any of the greens at Yale but it is the complex internal contours, shelves and irregularities that created magnificent pin locations. There are probably more intricate and varied putts on this green then ANY other on the course. The uphill nature of the approach and the depth of the green make the short approach very exacting.

Given the blasting that created this hole, there was little topsoil to grow turf on the fairway and consequently, drainage was very poor.  One of the highlights of this past golf season at Yale was the very successful drainage work on this fairway.  It now remains MUCH dryer then previously and consequently plays much better.

The relative position of hole number 7 to hole number 8 can be seen in this 1940 aerial view. Its clear how hole 8 and therefore the return to the pond for #9 was made possible by creation of the devilish 7th hole. I'd also like to point out the detail around the first green and the front left bunker.


An old photo showing the approach shot to this green is shown next (Thanks to George Bahto). Note the size of the greenside bunker which is about as large as the green. It featured a large lip on the front.  8)


Aerial enlargement of the 7th green from 1940 confirm the placement of this bunker and its size.  


Now let’s take a look at hole #7 today. :'(  I have not bothered to photograph a closeup image of the Roger Rulewich bunker.  Needless to saw you can see enough from the images below.  It is another of his peanut shaped entities created with complete disregard to the originals. It is MUCH smaller then the original.  It is totally a different shape.  It is placed down the hillside and not up at the green as was the original. It does not have the lip of the original.  Other then that it is a perfect match. DUH Yet we can go back to his quote PUBLISHED IN GOLFWEEK “The bunker renovation started in 1998 after reviewing hundreds of construction pictures and several aerial photos of the entire course taken since 1934” and “All of the other sand bunkers have now been repaired with improved drainage and new sand. The style of flat sand areas and grass banks have been preserved. The grass slopes have not been softened - they were left undisturbed in most every case when the bunker repair was done. The steepness is not gone and depths have not been compromised.” and “The bunkers at Yale hardly suffer from an overdose of Valium as Klein suggests. They are wonderfully varied, from shallow to deep, small to large and in varied configurations. Where are the "amoeba-like" shapes he seems to have found?”
 


We can also see from the photo taken in the landing area of the fairway another bit of the idiotic stuff members had to contend with during the two years the athletic department decided not to hire a superintendent.  Peter Pulaski, director of golf was in charge and this little patch of rough was grown in the freekin primary landing area for a perfect drive. It extends more then halfway into the width of the fairway.  It was nicknamed (NOT BY ME but others who obviously saw the folly in this move) “Peter’s Patch”  HAH  ;D  :o  I trust that our new superintendent will rid us of this folly ASAP.

So I ask once again- Is this a satisfactory restoration.  Has the history and greatness of the course at Yale been given its proper due? I remind you again of Roger Rulewich’s concluding remark published in Golfweek “Klein’s caustic review does an injustice to all of us who are working on the course and to the perseverance of the University and it’s benefactors in their dedicated efforts to bring back the glory of an inspired design. The bunker program has gone a long way toward that goal. Other improvements are underway and under consideration to make the course more beautiful, playable, and challenging for all the golfers who enjoy it. Its reputation is intact and I have no fear that the greatness of this classic and historic course will ever be diminished.” In keeping with the season, HUMBUG!

« Last Edit: December 02, 2003, 05:07:31 PM by Geoffrey Childs »

tonyt

Re:The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2003, 02:44:36 PM »
Hi Geoffrey,

WOW!

This example reminds me of the first Yale/Tragedy thread which destroyed our minds and had me leaping from my desk in anguish when the pictures of the bunker on #18 showed a very similar result. Massive, sprawling, intimidating golden age looking bunker becomes small, bleached, flat and shallow piece of crap!

I explained it accurately to a friend by comparing it to showing a Hollywood star my tiny suburban three bedroom home, and insisting that my abode is a restored equal size replica of their Malibu clifftop palace. "Once your staff and six cars are here, I just KNOW you'd see it's identical"  :)

stovepipe

Re:The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2003, 03:09:56 PM »
Geoff, looks a O.Kay Golf hole. whats the yds e.t.c.

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2003, 03:22:51 PM »
Do the neighborhood kids ride their BMX bikes on the mound on the right side ...:(
"... and I liked the guy ..."

GeoffreyC

Re:The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2003, 03:35:31 PM »
Andy-  It is indeed a fine hole.  All of them at Yale range from fine to world-class. It is a short par four of 370 yards. Being in the fairway is of primary importance for the approach because finding the proper place on the green relative to the pin location is critical to consistent scoring. This hole is three putted as much as any on the course including #9.

I find the detail in the old aerial closeup and George's photo to be revealing.  The mound/lip at the front right of the green is obvious (and no longer present).  This would be a very important feature for a front left pin as missing just short and right is currently far better then being on the left side of the green beyond the pin or deep right. Those putts are impossible and short right leaves a straightforward shot that the mound/lip could complicate. This is but another dumbing down of the wonderful strategic genius of Raynor and MacDonald.

Mike- That hillside would be a fun place for BMX bikes. I hope the neighborhood kids don't read GCA.

stovepipe

Re:The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2003, 03:40:50 PM »
O.Kay,  Mike Benman, your funny, made me chukle. ;D

Geoff, a q for you, where abouts in the States is this Beastie? and is it near any Airports?

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2003, 03:45:21 PM »
Yale U. is in New Haven, Connecticut.  Course is on edge of town.

Chris_Clouser

Re:The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2003, 03:47:11 PM »
Geoffrey,

I agree that the bunker does not resemble in any way the original.  I've been amazed at the differences on each hole thus far and really wonder what Yale and RR were looking at.

But, if this hole were "restored," where would it rank on the course.  Thus far, it is the least exciting that I have seen.  Granted I have not played the course, so I can't speak from first hand knowledge (and I don't want to sound like Pat Mucci), but what makes the hole exemplary.

I really am looking forward to the 8th hole though.  To go through all of that to route the 8th and 9th, those holes must really be special.  I've seen enough photos of the 9th to know how good that hole is, but haven't seen much at all on 8.


GeoffreyC

Re:The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2003, 03:52:18 PM »
Andy-  The course at Yale is one of the popular subjects here on GCA for a number of reasons.  

Its one of the great landmark designs of Seth Raynor with CB MacDonald's consulting. Its genuinely loved by many contributors to this site ESPECIALLY one Ran Morrissett.  Which reminds me to once again ask where the hell Ran has been hiding and why isn't he contributing and commenting on what's happening to the Yale golf course ?  ???  

Come on Ran we'd like to know what you think.

Finally, its a popular topic here because its worth saving and the course has been butchered.  First a long time ago by a superintendent, Harry Meusel,  given a bulldozer to play with and most recently by the athletic department and Roger Rulewich.

I have been documenting each hole and the work that has been done to it.  I suggest that you look back in the archives for holes 1 through 6 as well as other discussions of the course and Ran's teriffic course profile in the "courses by country" section of this site.

GeoffreyC

Re:The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2003, 04:01:06 PM »
Chris-

The 7th hole, while short is still big in scale and bold in its features.  Miss the fairway by much (especially right) and you can't hit the green.  Try to hit the green and miss by much on either side and you are dead. Due to the severe back to front slope miss long and you better have the short game of Tiger, Phil (Mickelson or Rogers) or Seve. Once on the green and you need to be in the proper place for the pin or three putts are common.  If you fall asleep for a moment, the 7th hole will bite you.  Its also one of those severe uphill approaches (not easily appreciated from the photos) that makes you a bit uneasy about club selection.

Fully restored, that bunker complex including the mounding/lip would add to the beauty and complexity of the hole and bring back some of the intended strategy.

I would also agree that it is probably the weakest/least interesting hole on the great front nine at Yale. Still, its one fine hole and it allowed creation of two world class GREAT holes.

But what do I know that the Roger Rulewich and a Yale restoration committee don't fully appreciate?  ::)
« Last Edit: December 02, 2003, 05:14:47 PM by Geoffrey Childs »

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2003, 04:02:51 PM »
Ran does have a new baby in the house and I think work may be busy for him right now.  He's not the only one absent lately.  Mr. Cirba and Mr. Papazian/Gyro are AWOL as well, it seems, not to mention Ed Baker, whose new job keeps him away.

In case Andy searches for holes 1-6, hole 3 hasn't been done yet, skipped for a later time by Dr. Childs.

I also love the course (don't want to rehash that topic again), likely on my personal Top 10 I've played, even with it's current state and conditioning.

Tuco Ramirez

Re:The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2003, 04:07:37 PM »
Well someone censored the last post I had on a Yale thread and did the same to El Guapo. True they were posts made in jest but they were taken out so someone is watching over things. Not sure who though..  I for one really miss Ran's participation on this site.  He used to ask the most poignant questions and start up the best debates.  

GeoffreyC

Re:The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2003, 04:19:09 PM »
Tuco

I too miss the contributions of Ran. He has a great eye for features and his views are well respected.  He loves the Yale course and I've played it with him.

It seems that he backs up his love for the course by continuing to vote it among the Golf Magazine Top 100 courses in the country.  Currently it moved UP to #69.  I personally think this serves only to encourage the folks at Yale to believing they are on the right track.  That's another travesty in my not so humble opinion and its another reason I'd appreciate hearing Ran's views.

Scott- he did have the time to censor Tuco and Guapo and many of us have busy schedules.  Are you implying that the regular contributors to this site have too much time on their hands?  ;D
« Last Edit: December 02, 2003, 04:20:39 PM by Geoffrey Childs »

stovepipe

Re:The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2003, 04:21:44 PM »
Scott. thanks for the info, thats another one on my golfing list.

Mike_Sweeney

Re:The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2003, 04:34:09 PM »
Can any of the supers lurking give us an estimate of cost or how many man hours per week it takes to maintain the old Raynor bunker versus the new Rulewich bunker?

Thanks

Chris,

While a good hole, you are correct that it is not the best on the front side.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2003, 04:35:03 PM by Mike_Sweeney »

DPL11

Re:The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2003, 05:14:40 PM »
Mike,

The old Raynor bunker looks like a 1 man-20 minute hand rake if he takes his time. The Rulewich could only take 5 minutes with a break. 20 min x 4 times per week x $9.00 per hour=approx $12.00 per week. Big Bucks!

The Rulewich bunker is not worth estimating.

DPL11
« Last Edit: December 02, 2003, 05:20:52 PM by DPL11 »

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2003, 05:17:01 PM »
Geoff,
Didn't Yale slip right off the charts for a while due mainly, I think, to conditioning? Could Yale's 69th place ranking be more of a nod to the improvements in maintenance?
I say this because it seems so evident that a hole like 7 would be much more demanding with the original bunkering and restoring this kind of stuff would probably mean Yale would easily crack the top 50 and not be held back in 69th place.    
 
 
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

GeoffreyC

Re:The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2003, 05:22:28 PM »
Jim

For the two years since Yale moved from somewhere in the 80's on the Golf Magazine list UP to number 69 we had NO superintendent.  Maintenance practices included hand watering the front right section of the redan  ??? , and creating patches of rough (Peter's Patch) shown here. Maintenance did not improve over those two years and moreover I ask how the Golf raters would know this? The golf rater that I know  ;) has not seen the course since May of 2001.

Fully restored, the Yale course would not only crack the top 50 I believe it would be in the top 25. It is as unique a golf course design as I have seen. Its a shame that the Yale University administration doesn't see it that way.

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2003, 05:30:15 PM »
Geoff,
No doubt you are right that a fully restored Yale would crack the top 25, I was being a minimalist.  ;D
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Mike_Sweeney

Re:The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2003, 05:45:08 PM »
G,

I found out over the weekend, my brother played in the Yale hockey outing around Labor Day at Yale with a co-worker. He forgot I played there. He plays at Canoe Brook in Jersey, but does not play much and took the game up later in life. He would have no appreciation for our craziness here at GCA. It was interesting to hear him say, "it is a little rough up there." Hard to really know what he meant as the back 9 work was going on at the time, but I see these pictures and I think it should be ALOT ROUGHER up there. The old pictures look like the inland version of NGLA.  :'(


Thanks DPLIII
« Last Edit: December 02, 2003, 05:47:17 PM by Mike_Sweeney »

George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2003, 06:08:12 PM »
Geoffrey:  .... as usual, a great post.

I think that original greenside-right bunker might be the  best greenside bunker I've seen.

I'll have more Charlie Banks info later this evening.

gb
If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Patrick_Mucci

Re:The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2003, 08:11:58 PM »
Mike,
While a good hole, you are correct that it is not the best on the front side.

You might want to go a step further by stating that it may be the most benign or mundane hole on the front nine.

It does surround itself with a rather strong cast.

It's an unusual hole given the terrain on the front nine, but there are so many good holes on the front nine that this one sits low on the totem pole.

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2003, 10:34:46 PM »
I have always liked the look of the tee shot from #7 and, as noted earlier, the approach shot needs to be hit with care. Rebuild that original bunker and whoa!  
I have a new found respect for this hole considering the premise under which it was built, to be able to use the terrain for 8 and 9.
I can't even recall how many times I've played poor holes that are used for this same purpose,i.e., getting the player to the next set of holes.
Seven has to be one of the better 'throw-away' holes in golf. ;D


 
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2003, 10:48:07 PM »
1931: from an article from the Yale archives ......

"This hole reminds one of Indian Summer. It is pleasant, inviting and a trifle lazy. The fairway is a natural lane
between two ledges on the right, cleared and bare, and tree covered ledges on the left.  

The approach to the green is a well rounded knoll and the green winds to the right on the top of the knoll. There is a wide bunker to the right of the green.  Play on this hole is better if made to the left hugging the trees so as to get a better entry to the green.

In the construction of this hole six feet of solid ledge was taken off the knoll approach and the balance of the fairway was an impassable swamp.”

by C. H. Josh Banks:   and he also might have said: ".... and quit calling me steamshovel   ::) ! ... there is more to me than just that. I thought of using it as the expedition of the task at hand  8) !  ........... and by the way, they all started using the big-shovel after I started it, didn't they?)   :P
If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Travesty of Yale- hole 7
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2003, 12:13:19 PM »
Slightly off the topic, but has anyone noticed the striking similarity between Yale's #11 (par 4, 379 yards) and Blackstone National's #5 (par 4, 350 yards)? Both play downhill with a slight dogleg right, and both provide safe landing areas short and more dangerous areas long. The bunkering/hazard areas also mirror each other. Of course, Blackstone is beautifully manicured while Yale is fraying at the edges, but the resemblance is uncanny. I could be making a connection where none exists, but with Rees being a Yale alum, I started to wonder if he has articulated his intention to use the Yale hole as a model. Any thoughts?

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