Every Hole At NGLA

[David_Tepper]

Video flyover narrated by Gil Hanse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5yGcgxCOQs

[Ronald Montesano]

I had some fun on the Tweet with Stina Sternberg about this one. I indicated that I loved Long Island muni golf, with tongue planted firmly in cheek. I don't think that I was obvious enough in my humor. It was prior to revealing which course it was, but it was obviouse to me from the tease.

How freaking fortunate we were to have the year of 2013. Sebonack hosted the Women's Open and NGLA welcomed the Walker Cup. I spent more time at my friend's place near Bethpage than before or since. Oh, and one of my golfers was at Bethpage for NYS Federation championship in June, so I was there a third time!!

The Trade Brigade is one of my favorite stories, regarding travel to and from the Hamptons by car. It was the USGA squad who advised me on it. When approaching from the west, you have to be far enough down route 27 to avoid the massive number of handyfolk who work on the toney mansions. If not ahead of them, you wait in line for days. For the 2019 Open at Shinny, a buddy didn't believe me, but when we got on the road late, he became a believer. He panicked and jumped off 27 to take a short cut...there are none. We arrived an hour late (still had all day for viewing) but nothing more awkward than the silence between me (the navigator) and him (the driver) that morning. Fortunately, no fisticuffs

[PCCraig]

The NGLA video was really good.


These flyovers are the best content GD is producing these days.

[Jim Hoak]

I love National.  So, the comments I'm about to make are not meant to diminish my affection for the course in any way.
But I'm curious to hear, from those of you who put National near the top of your favorite courses, why you consider it to be better than other Macdonald/Raynor courses?  For example, why is National better than Yale?  Just because of course conditioning?  History?  Both National and Yale have several exceptional holes, but I have trouble thinking of either as greatly superior to the other.

[Thomas Dai]

The quality of productions like this one continue to improve. What’ll the equivalents be like in years to come I wonder?
Thanks for sharing.
Atb

[Jeff Schley]

Outstanding feature and those who are drone haters........ viewer discretion is advised!

[John Foley]

I love National.  So, the comments I'm about to make are not meant to diminish my affection for the course in any way.
But I'm curious to hear, from those of you who put National near the top of your favorite courses, why you consider it to be better than other Macdonald/Raynor courses?  For example, why is National better than Yale?  Just because of course conditioning?  History?  Both National and Yale have several exceptional holes, but I have trouble thinking of either as greatly superior to the other.

First time I played Yale I had a similar feeling - how is NGLA better? These land forms are tremendous. Conditioning, exclusivity and H20 I get it but the holes at Yale are great. BTW I love 18!!

[Tim Martin]

I love National.  So, the comments I'm about to make are not meant to diminish my affection for the course in any way.
But I'm curious to hear, from those of you who put National near the top of your favorite courses, why you consider it to be better than other Macdonald/Raynor courses?  For example, why is National better than Yale?  Just because of course conditioning?  History?  Both National and Yale have several exceptional holes, but I have trouble thinking of either as greatly superior to the other.

First time I played Yale I had a similar feeling - how is NGLA better? These land forms are tremendous. Conditioning, exclusivity and H20 I get it but the holes at Yale are great. BTW I love 18!!

The only thing that Yale lacks as compared to NGLA is water on the perimeter. For architectural quality they are certainly in the same ball park. It would be a fun exercise to go hole by hole and I would say Yale is two up after 2.

[Ronald Montesano]

Redan at Yale does not function as a Redan should. Ball does not feed off kickplate onto green properly. Hole 16 is a good hole, but lacks a defining, geometric feature.

There is not one weak hole at NGLA. Yale has two (13 and 16, mentioned above) that are not as strong as their counterparts at NGLA.

Other than the 18th at NGLA, you don't think of it as a water's-edge course.

[Tom_Doak]

The only thing that Yale lacks as compared to NGLA is water on the perimeter. For architectural quality they are certainly in the same ball park. It would be a fun exercise to go hole by hole and I would say Yale is two up after 2.

It would probably make more sense to pair the template holes directly, and then it starts to get easier to see why NGLA is better:  holes like the Redan and the Short are a walkover!  But Yale does have some non-template standouts, so it might be closer in the hole by hole.  Here's my take [and I am doing it live, no editing]:


Yale wins 1 & 2  +2
NGLA wins 3-8  +4
Yale wins 9   -3
halve tenth
NGLA wins 11-12   +5
Yale wins 13
NGLA wins 14 and wins match 6 & 4
NGLA would also win three of the last four holes IMO


You could make a case for Yale's 4th hole getting a half, that's a great hole, but it's up against the best Redan in the world
Maybe you could make a case for Yale's 8th hole, but again, look what it's up against


If anything this exercise made me think less of Yale!  Best not to compare oneself to the GOAT.

[Mike Hendren]

One could reasonably opine that there is no better course in the world. 

[Tim Martin]

The only thing that Yale lacks as compared to NGLA is water on the perimeter. For architectural quality they are certainly in the same ball park. It would be a fun exercise to go hole by hole and I would say Yale is two up after 2.

It would probably make more sense to pair the template holes directly, and then it starts to get easier to see why NGLA is better:  holes like the Redan and the Short are a walkover!  But Yale does have some non-template standouts, so it might be closer in the hole by hole.  Here's my take [and I am doing it live, no editing]:


Yale wins 1 & 2  +2
NGLA wins 3-8  +4
Yale wins 9   -3
halve tenth
NGLA wins 11-12   +5
Yale wins 13
NGLA wins 14 and wins match 6 & 4
NGLA would also win three of the last four holes IMO


You could make a case for Yale's 4th hole getting a half, that's a great hole, but it's up against the best Redan in the world
Maybe you could make a case for Yale's 8th hole, but again, look what it's up against


If anything this exercise made me think less of Yale!  Best not to compare oneself to the GOAT.

Tom-Thanks for making such a solid case.   I think 8,17 and 18 are in jump ball territory but when you examine it further it’s clear that NGLA is the GOAT.

[Mike Wagner]

Played National recently and it went to my #1. Creek Club might be his most underrated (or maybe just not as well know). Played them the same day .. it was special to say the least.

[Matt Kardash]

The only thing that Yale lacks as compared to NGLA is water on the perimeter. For architectural quality they are certainly in the same ball park. It would be a fun exercise to go hole by hole and I would say Yale is two up after 2.

It would probably make more sense to pair the template holes directly, and then it starts to get easier to see why NGLA is better:  holes like the Redan and the Short are a walkover!  But Yale does have some non-template standouts, so it might be closer in the hole by hole.  Here's my take [and I am doing it live, no editing]:


Yale wins 1 & 2  +2
NGLA wins 3-8  +4
Yale wins 9   -3
halve tenth
NGLA wins 11-12   +5
Yale wins 13
NGLA wins 14 and wins match 6 & 4
NGLA would also win three of the last four holes IMO


You could make a case for Yale's 4th hole getting a half, that's a great hole, but it's up against the best Redan in the world
Maybe you could make a case for Yale's 8th hole, but again, look what it's up against


If anything this exercise made me think less of Yale!  Best not to compare oneself to the GOAT.

There is only one GOAT and his name is Messi 

[John Foley]

Yale wins 1 & 2  +2

Tom just curious why do you have Yale # 1 over NGLA's #1? I LOVE National's green site.

[Ronald Montesano]

Poor Tom...now we all want to know something.

Along the lines of Tim's question, would you say that #18 goes to NGLA or Yale?

[Jeff Schley]

Played National recently and it went to my #1. Creek Club might be his most underrated (or maybe just not as well know). Played them the same day .. it was special to say the least.

Wonderful day indeed Mike. Did you have time for the lobster lunch?

[Mike Hendren]

Is it fair to say that NGLA is far more nuanced and strategic from the tee than Yale?

[Mike Wagner]

Played National recently and it went to my #1. Creek Club might be his most underrated (or maybe just not as well know). Played them the same day .. it was special to say the least.

Wonderful day indeed Mike. Did you have time for the lobster lunch?

We did not ... nice chicken salad sandwich overlooking 18. Loved it. Simple.

[Andrew Carr]

Sorry guys if this was posted somewhere else and I didn't see it, but according to George Bhato's Evangelist of Golf, he references a 1907 Article "The Ideal Golf Course" which credits Bottle's inspiration to the 12th at Sunningdale's Golf Club, however in the flyover Gil Hanse credits the inspiration to the defunct Leven Links.  Also, in "Inception of ideal golf course" in Scotland's Gift, Macdonald's first listed hole is "(s)imilar to the bottle hole at Sunningdale, placing deep graduated bunkers in place of ditch and bunker the green properly."  Interestingly on that same page of list holes, at the 8th on the list, is a 420 Yards hold "similar to 9th Leven."  Is it possible that Mr. Hanse mistakenly looked at this list of holes and thought that it was not Macdonald's ideal holes but the list of inspiration for NGLA?  The 4th is listed as "(r)esembling Redan, North Berwick."


I know that Bethpage Black Metal did a wonderful job on this particular topic, but he poses the potential inspiration as Park's 2nd at Huntercombe: https://bethpageblackmetal.com/2020/10/03/macdonalds-bottle-template-and-inspiration-beyond-sunningdale/


The real point of what I'm getting at is...what is Mr. Hanse referring to?