Best Courses to See in Scottsdale

[Stewart Abramson]

'Interesting", of course, is the key here. If you are really interested in "interesting" you might consider:

Troon CC — My favorite modern desert course (besides our Legend Trail)

Legend Trail is overlooked and/or under-appreciated by many. Not certain why.


Link to photos: [size=78%]https://www.flickr.com/photos/golfcoursepix/albums/72157676728794993/with/32706133512/[/size]

[Forrest Richardson]

Thanks Stewart! You're spot on — Legend Trail is often overlooked. When Troon managed it there seemed to be some "emphasis" placed upon its standing, perhaps because of the wide net Troon has on certain media. At least Troon "gets attention", and sometimes that's what it takes. Also, as many know here, Rees's work is often not embraced. Too bad. When we did the work—while it was not all roses—I learned a lot from Greg Muirhead (Rees's design associate at the time), and we managed a graceful, but creative desert course. Not all are graceful, to say the least.

https://www.golfgroupltd.com/projects/legend-trail-golf-club/

I could go on, but another reason golfers do not always hear about certain courses (besides the media 'umph' of any given course) is the collective bias we see in such places as The Atlas — where very often the sad reality is that influential posters and 'early adopters' have a narrow-minded view of who's work should be lauded, and if it doesn't smell a certain way — well, it's often discarded as second-rate. In my career I've been fortunate to have decent reviews, plus we do all we can to remind people of what we've accomplished. But, we also encounter our share of "Legend Trails" — which are perplexing, as you aptly point out. Again, thanks.

[MCirba]

It looks as though Wick has gone private.


Def planning to play Encanto next visit as I'm a Muni Rat.


Thoughts on 500 Club and/or Vistancia?

[Mark Kiely]

It looks as though Wick has gone private.

That might've just happened. A few days ago the "Book a tee time" button on their site went to two options: members and public play. Also possible they limit play to members only right after overseeding.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

@Mike Cirba

Have you played Aguila, a Phoenix Muni ? https://www.phoenix.gov/parks/golf/phoenix-golf-courses/aguila


Dobson Ranch in Mesa, a Muni,  is a Red Lawrence design worth a shot: https://www.arizonagolfer.com/golfcourses/dobson-ranch-golf-course

Vistancia and 500 Club each have some good holes but are not highly rated.

My initial post has gone by the wayside.

[Dave Givnish]

1 - Green fees for the Waste Management/Super Bowl week will be stupid - it's expense account golf that week.


2 - Southern Dunes, Wickenburg Ranch, Los Caballeros (also Wickenburg) are all good courses, but you'll have roughly an hour drive each way from central Scottsdale. Add Quintero to that mix.


3 - Private clubs are pretty much all full so don't be surprised if your pro has trouble lining up a reciprocal.


Mountain Shadows, Papago, and Grand Canyon would all be good choices for a travel day as they're relatively close to the airport.

[Forrest Richardson]

Mike — 500 Club is an anomaly reserved for the bold and adventuring golf course critic. Rather home-grown. Built by Brian Witcombe, PGA (now retired) along with Indy 500 Winner, Tom Sneva. They asked us to help design and we, well, felt it "not perhaps the right fit..." I later did work for Tom Sneva on Coldwater (also Phoenix), but contracted design control. One of the great decisions on my part!! Eventually Tom dropped out and I finished that project working for Landscapes Unlimited, who came in to "buy" the project and ultimately the course itself.

The 500 Club has some interesting features, but overall it's a shame not to be better. I've not played it in years...maybe 20 by now.

Encanto is just quirky, and it's Wm P. Bell c. 1937. A flat site, but one can "see" the Bell bunkers had they ever been preserved. They were quite dramatic — his "sheet on the ground" work if I were to guess. Few photos remain, but I've seen some over the years. The City of Phoenix has systematically ruined the course over the years, taking great 'care' to erode the charm and classic nature at every turn. None of the current City managers did this — so I'm 'free' to express my views. What the former City Manager was saying, was that Encanto has the potential to be the greatest — it's just north of downtown Phoenix and represents a great pre-WWII City Park. If given the correct does of care, it would be awesome. We have created several plans over the years...all for groups looking to "right the wrongs" in similar patronage to work you've done, and of others.

Among my favorite features are the canals on the front nine. Still historic throwbacks to the days when the area was all in citrus production.

[MCirba]

Thanks for the feedback, fellas.


Any word on Verrado Founders course?   

[Bill Buthorn]

I played both the Founders course and the Victory course last week. 


Founders is a really well done desert course.  There are a few homes here and there, but they are well bock and do not intrude at all.  There are a number of first rate holes, and the views from the back nine are as good as it gets.  Unfortunately, the rains, yes it rains here, hit the course the day of overseed.   Much of the seed washed off of the greens. Then it got cold enough that the grass would not grow.  The upshot is, the greens are very bumpy and difficult to play.  The rest of the course is fine and in good shape.  A little like saying your car is awesome, but the engine won’t run.


Victory on the other hand is in great shape, and is really fun to play.  It is unique among desert courses both in its design and the environment it is in.  Play it soon, the houses are already up on many holes.

[MCirba]

Thanks Bill...sounds encouraging despite the weather bumpiness.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Falcon Dunes, one of the top military courses and located in the West Valley near Luke AFB, is open for play for active and retired military and their guests,  Are you eligible? Not open for public play :

https://www.hoodmwr.com/best-military-golf-courses/

Picture of Falcon Dunes:

www.hoodmwr.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/image-4-1024x654.png

[MCirba]

Falcon Dunes, one of the top military courses and located in the West Valley near Luke AFB, is open for play for retired military and their guests in prime season.  Are you eligible? If not, then I might be able to get you on. It might be open for public play now:

https://www.hoodmwr.com/best-military-golf-courses/

Picture of Falcon Dunes:

www.hoodmwr.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/image-4-1024x654.png

Steve,


Thanks...both of my brothers-in-law are veterans as is their dad, who was a fighter pilot during Vietnam and later taught pilots in West Germany during the Cold War.  Looks good.

[Matt_Cohn]

1 - Green fees for the Waste Management/Super Bowl week will be stupid - it's expense account golf that week.

Troon North $659
Quintero $473
Grayhawk $552
Boulders $519


Sounds fun!

[MCirba]

1 - Green fees for the Waste Management/Super Bowl week will be stupid - it's expense account golf that week.

Troon North $659
Quintero $473
Grayhawk $552
Boulders $519


Sounds fun!

Good thing I played Troon North way back when and have limited interest in seeing the others. 

[Jeff Evagues]

I play them in the summer when they are about $100.

[SL_Solow]

I have been offline for awhile.  Surprised at the lack of mention for Desert Forest in Carefree.  Very interesting and one of the earlier efforts at golf in the Desert

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Desert Forrest was mentioned several times in the earliest posts.  For those who have never played there, it is very much worth playing.  Those who played there before the ill fated work of 2013 will be absolutely saddened.  David Zinkand completely vandalized the great greens complexes!  Easily among the worst renovation jobs of the past 25 years!

[Daryl David]

Desert Forrest was mentioned several times in the earliest posts.  For those who have never played there, it is very much worth playing.  Those who played there before the ill fated work of 2013 will be absolutely saddened.  David Zinkand completely vandalized the great greens complexes!  Easily among the worst renovation jobs of the past 25 years!

Strong words. Unfortunately, probably true. Glad I have my memories of pre-2013.

[Peter Ferlicca]

I am a Superintendent out here at a course in the West Valley, Trilogy at Vistancia.  This year the two big rains and odd weather in between made overseeding a little more difficult than usual.  If you went early you had a big rain and then a lot heat afterwards causing bermuda bouneback, and if you went late you had a big rain storm and it went cold right away causing a very slow grow in. 


Anyways I have strong feelings on the golf out here and how they should be ranked.  There is a group of about 8-10 superintendents that get around and play golf and neighboring properties every couple of weeks, so we have seen most properties all times of the year. 


Public  (ranked by how I would list for enjoyment and affordability for public)  Courses that are one with the desert and are not surrounded by homes goes a long ways for me. 
1. WeKoPa Saguaro
2. Southern Dunes
3. Wickenburg Ranch
4. Camelback Ambiente
5. Quintero  (not my cup of tea, but everyone seems to love it, extremely hard golf course)
6. Talking Stick North
7. Papago
8. Aguila and 500 club  (both very underratted and great price points)
9. Falcon Dunes Golf Club (military only, but a very fun course)


Troon North, Grayhawk, Boulders, Wildfire, TPC are all nice but for their price point just not courses that move the needle.  I worked at Verrado/Victory back in 2019.  I agree that Verrado is a very nice layout and the back 9 is one of the best in the state.  Victory is a little too wild and the homes are ruining it.   




Private  (have not played Whisper Rock, Estancia, or Mirabel)
1. Scottsdale National (Other Course) the most fun day of golf I have had in a long time (bad little nine is a blast)
2. Desert Forest
3. Desert Mountain Outlaw
4. Troon CC
5. Desert Highlands (way too many moguls and mounds for my taste)

[MCirba]

Peter,


Thanks...that list is really helpful, thanks.   


From their website it looks like Wick has gone private.   If so, where would it slot among the private courses you listed? 

[MCirba]

Forrest,


Playing Belleair Monday afternoon with my brothers in law and wife.   Looking forward to seeing what sounds like a cool project.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

@Mike
This BellAir in Phoenix? Red Lawrence?

 https://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/west-phoenix/new-owners-hope-to-bring-west-valley-golf-course-up-to-par
 https://www.bellairgolfpark.com/the-course

[MCirba]

Correct, Steve.


https://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/digital/magazine/issue61/84/

[Forrest Richardson]

M Cirba — We never got to do anything at Bell-Air (Phoenix). Sadly, our client lost the property to a lender who flipped it to some investors. We still hold a lien on the property — but I'm not sure it will ever be honored. It's a great little course and the "magic" was to get rid of the short par-4s and potentially develop some much needed affordable housing...that proved difficult, and some poor legal advice to our client resulted in their losses. Too bad ... we have some neat plans! enjoy your time here.

[MCirba]

Sorry to hear that, Forrest.  Thanks for updating my understanding of the situation there.