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A.G._Crockett

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Re:Ross's List
« Reply #75 on: November 07, 2003, 10:49:56 AM »
Allan
I did make it to Asheboro, played the course, and enjoyed it greatly.  I did NOT see the documentation; I think that the original newspaper articles that are cited as being proof of Ross' work are in the possession of the city of Asheboro, rather than in the pro shop, which is just a tiny building anyway.

It was, however, very easy to believe that the course was a Ross design.  That's not to say it is, but it certainly isn't a stretch to see the greens and bunkering as typical.  It is also a wonderful example of what can happen when trees are allowed to grow for 70 years of so.  The ninth hole (of nine), is a terrific hole, spoiled to a great extent by a stand of pines just off the right front of the tee box that remove any options off the tee, and take out of play a really cool little fairway bunker.

I'd be curious, as I was in Feb., to hear from others on GCA that might have seen this little course.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Allan Long

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ross's List
« Reply #76 on: November 07, 2003, 11:21:19 AM »
A.G.,

Thanks for the update. It sounds like it will be worth a trip to see. As you say, hopefully others out there have played it and could shed some light on the situation.  
I don't know how I would ever have been able to look into the past with any degree of pleasure or enjoy the present with any degree of contentment if it had not been for the extraordinary influence the game of golf has had upon my welfare.
--C.B. Macdonald

Paul Richards

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Re:Ross's List
« Reply #77 on: November 08, 2003, 11:14:13 AM »

Adam:  
You said:
>Paul- Isn't it reasonable that if Ross did do "much of the course" that he would call it his own?

You have the original routing, does that course look amateurish? Is it possible that the original was of such poor conception that Ross' would've had a good chuckle the first time he laid eyes on her?


You could be right.  However, as I noted previously in this thread,

>... Ross was taking credit for redoing an already-existing golf course (keep in mind however dreadful this course may have been, it did host what was considered a 'major' tournament in its day, the 1910 Western Open, won by Chick Evans - in fact, I've read that this was the first 'major' tournament captured by an American - this before Ouimet's Open victory even) ....
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

TEPaul

Re:Ross's List
« Reply #78 on: November 09, 2003, 01:07:35 PM »
On this overall subject of Ross, and his lists of his inventory and what things he did, what they may have been called by him and what we might call them I wrote this a while ago;

This is an interesting back and forth between Tom MacWood and Paul Richards about what Donald Ross did on a particular golf course that may have been preexisting from another architect, what he said he did, what he called it, what it's labelled on some list, etc.

But when it gets into speculation about whether Ross was trying to feather his resume or course inventory or whatever and acting somewhat dishonestly we're probably taking things too far and we probably are beginning to split hairs.

First of all, we use all these TERMS today--eg, original design, rerouting, redesign, renovation, restoration, improvement, symapathetic this and that etc, etc, blah-blah. We should firstly realize that a Donald Ross or anyone else from that era may not have used or been aware of those terms or how we use them or those distinctions we use today even if they are clear today or were then which clearly they are not!

The best thing to do is to just figure out exactly what Ross (or anyone else) did and didn't do and call it what you call it! In this vein we're pretty good at labelling these things so that's what we ought to do and forget exactly how Ross labelled them because his perception and terminology could be very different from ours.

Later, I’ll try to label what I’d personally call the various things architects like Ross may have done on pre-existing courses or what others do today.





T_MacWood

Re:Ross's List
« Reply #79 on: November 10, 2003, 06:22:42 AM »
After looking over the list, it appears to me its purpose was to give the prospective client an accurate listing of Ross golf courses. Visit one of these courses and you will see what my work is about.

For that reason he left off courses that might have a nine from another architect, that might give the client the wrong idea. He left off courses that were subsequently remodeled by other architects. I believe he may also left off courses that were not constructed by his firm (but he did the plan). The courses he lists as remodeled, I believe, also fall into consistent and logical pattern. IMO the main purpose of the list was not to impress or build himself--based on what he left off of it.

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ross's List
« Reply #80 on: November 11, 2003, 07:54:33 PM »
Tom:

Well, I'm about worn out by all of this!

As I offered to you before, I look forward to your visit to Chicago and to Beverly and to hoisting a beer over any future discussion on the issue!! ;)
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ross's List
« Reply #81 on: March 07, 2010, 10:27:09 AM »
Here is an old thread on Ross.